τζάμπα μάγκας

[daeman]

[...] (Αναφέρθηκε, αν άκουσα καλά, και σε κάποιον οικονομολόγο που είπε ότι «σ' αυτή τη ζωή τίποτα δεν είναι σίγουρο εκτός από το θάνατο και τους φόρους». Προχτές κάποιος έγραφε ότι νομίζει ότι το είπε αυτό ο Φραγκλίνος Ρούζβελτ. Ξέρουμε ότι το είπε ο Βενιαμίν Φραγκλίνος.)

Death and taxes, σ' ένα νήμα για τη βιωσιμότητα του χρέους.
Βιοτή αβίωτος, φόρος αναλλοίωτος, βοά αποχειροβίοτος.

 

[cougr]

(Αναφέρθηκε, αν άκουσα καλά, και σε κάποιον οικονομολόγο που είπε ότι «σ' αυτή τη ζωή τίποτα δεν είναι σίγουρο εκτός από το θάνατο και τους φόρους». Προχτές κάποιος έγραφε ότι νομίζει ότι το είπε αυτό ο Φραγκλίνος Ρούζβελτ. Ξέρουμε ότι το είπε ο Βενιαμίν Φραγκλίνος.)

Και πρωτοεμφανίστηκε στο βιβλίο The Political History of the Devil (1726), του Daniel Defoe.

 

[pontios]

Good morning pontios,

all's good and well with your analysis but at the end of the day it's really just conjecture on our part. However, given that there is a very common saying in Greek- έξω απ' το χορό, πολλά τραγούδια λένε- which incidentally is quite frequently used against opposition parties, journalists and other perceived critics of the government and which in this context directly alludes to "armchair criticism", it would be fair to presume that Stournaras would've used this if that's what he'd meant.

Hi, cougr.
Sorry for my tardy response.
Of course it is just conjecture. It was just a suggestion, on my part, of a term that may have somewhat suited the occasion, if it had its Greek equivalent. So it's just a hypothetical.

From what nickel pointed out - it suggests to me that Stournaras was looking for something catchy and pithy, i.e., a simple label and not a cumbersome metaphor.
It was obviously meant for public consumption, an attempt by Stournaras to condemn and berate the negative campaign - δηλαδή, "το Όχι, δεν είναι πρόταση, όσες φόρες και αν επαναληφθεί"; to point out that the opposition is lax, as you say (all we're hearing from them is "no"), as well as to highlight their lack of initiative to present or suggest a viable and alternative plan, despite their array of eminent economists.
Labels are effective as they are catchy, easily understood and repeatable.
I'm not saying "armchair critic" was the label of choice, I was only suggesting (and conjecturing) that had it have been in his cache of labels, he may have chosen it, in this instance. No one wants to be tagged with something negative. Had the simple "naysayers" (its Greek equivalent) been in his cache, maybe he would have chosen that?
Is there a Greek equivalent for "naysayer", by the way?

The metaphor that you suggest may carry a similar meaning, but it is obviously not a label. Also, when it's reduced right down, and stripped right back to its basic elements, the image that it would be ascribing to the opposition would be that of a "singer" - which is something good and noble. Stournaras was looking for something original and a bit stronger, to suit the occasion, but his cupboard was bare.

 

[cougr]

Hi pontios,

For the most part I concur with what you're saying, particularly now that nickel has pointed out, in his previous post, that the term τζάμπα μάγκας could in fact be used to allude to an "armchair critic" (my understanding of the term until now was that it had a more confined meaning).

PS: I enjoy the way you cogently present ideas in an attempt to support your arguments by deconstructing the meaning of and psychoanalytically teasing out the possible underlying connotations of a phrase. For instance, not in a million years would I have connected the saying "έξω απ' το χορό, πολλά τραγούδια λένε" with the idea that it can confer goodness and nobility to those to whom it is directed to.

Anyway I'm off to the beach now. Enjoy your day!

 

[cougr]

Καλημέρα. Το διαφορετικό που θέλω να πιάσω είναι το «εκ του ασφαλούς», το «χωρίς να κινδυνεύει». [...]

Το πλησιέστερο που μπορώ να σκεφτώ είναι το cowardly tough guy.

Lastly, please stop baiting the ballplayers. Too many of those who reach across the rail for a ball in play are cowardly tough guys who assume that same barrier will protect them from retaliation if they taunt a ballplayer and swipe at his face.

He's a cowardly tough piece of shit who only acts that way when all his mates are with him.

Ή πιο περιφραστικά- Tough from the safe side of the fence

 

[pontios]

I love your persistence, cougr.

There's also the slang term "window warrior" (or "window tough-guy"); although not widely used, it seems to fit the bill.
Its shortcoming might be that it's "jail talk slang".

Here's a window warrior having a bad day in Melbourne, taking his frustrations out on his poor, defenceless phone (warning - there's a bit of swearing).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYPc1kFdN1A

 

[cougr]

Glad you're familiar with jailhouse slang pontios. :)

Funnily enough, I had been aware of the term "Windows warrior" (aka "internet tough guy", ie someone who projects a fake tough or aggressive persona behind the safety of his computer) but not the "window warrior" of the prison variety.

 

[pontios]

Βρήκα αυτό το χαζό κλιπ, με τίτλο "The armchair tough guy", και αμέσως σκέφτηκα αυτό το νήμα.
Episode 2 of the Angerman Chronicles series by: Ian Strang and Adam Southwick

 

[dominotheory]

Νομίζω ότι υπάρχει και μια άλλη, πολύ διαδεδομένη, σημασία της έκφρασης τζάμπα μάγκας, που το ΛΝΕΓ και το ΛΚΝ παραβλέπουν:
του ανθρώπου που είναι μόνο λόγια, που λέει πολλά και σπουδαία αλλά δεν κάνει τίποτα.

Κάτι αναφέρει το slang.gr (ο cougr πήγε μέχρι εκεί, αλλά δεν ασχολήθηκε ιδιαίτερα):
Τζάμπα μάγκας = ανίκανος άντρας... Που το παίζει μάγκας αλλά δειλιάζει στην πρώτη δυσκολία...
http://www.slang.gr/lemma/show/tzampa_magkas_703

Αυτό νομίζω ότι φαίνεται αρκετά καθαρά στην περίπτωση της χρήσης της έκφρασης από τον Τσώνη όταν μιλά για τον Δημητράκη.
(το έχει ήδη επισημάνει ο nickel, εδώ)

Υπό αυτή την έννοια, προτεινόμενες αποδόσεις είναι και τα:
"He's all talk and no action"
"He's a man of easy words"


Ακόμη, το armchair critic του Πόντιου φέρνει στον νου τον armchair hero (υπάρχει και τραγούδι).

 

[cougr]

Επίσης, "He's all front and no substance".

 

[CoastalFog]

Gee-whiz, nickel.
Tons of good answers here. Bet, you're experiencing option paralysis by now.
Well, not to be outdone--given the vast variety of English dialects--let me add some American lingo for you too.

In the first sense of τζάμπα μάγκας, what you'll hear nationwide is false bravado.
Alternatively, as pontios already suggested, you can add just about anything you like after the word armchair: +hero, +rebel, +quarterback, +general, +warrior, etc.

In the second sense of the term (=big talker), as dominotherory pointed out, there is no single term across America.
Off the top, I'd say all hat and no cattle, a phrase my wife has never heard of since usage varies by state.

Here's an assortment of synonyms from Wiktionary:
all hat and no cattle
(US, idiomatic) Full of big talk but lacking action, power, or substance; pretentious.

Synonyms:

all bark and no bite; all bluff and bluster; all booster, no payload; all crown, no filling; all foam, no beer; all ham, no let; all hammer, no nail; all icing, no cake; all lime and salt, no tequila; all mouth and no trousers; all mouth and trousers; all shot, no powder; all sizzle and no steak; all talk; all talk and no action; all wax and no wick; all motion and no meat; all show, no go; all fart and no poo

Good luck!

 

[daeman]

...
all hat and no cattle

all bark and no bite; all bluff and bluster; all booster, no payload; all crown, no filling; all foam, no beer; all ham, no let; all hammer, no nail; all icing, no cake; all lime and salt, no tequila; all mouth and no trousers; all mouth and trousers; all shot, no powder; all sizzle and no steak; all talk; all talk and no action; all wax and no wick; all motion and no meat; all show, no go; all fart and no poo
...

Νάιιιςςς! Αυτά μ' αρέσουν πολύ, τα αυθόρμητα και παραστατικά! Ευχαριστώ, Παράκτιε.

Το all hat and no cattle, ψευτοκαουμπόης (και ψευτοκαμπόσος), ε; Ο ου μπόης, μεγάλος στη λαλιά, μικρός στο μπόι.

Και το all bark and no bite: γαβγίζει μόνο, δε δαγκώνει. To all shot, no powder το 'χουμε μονολεκτικό, άσφαιρος, ενώ το all sizzle and no steak το 'χουμε χορτοφαγικό: όλο λάδι κι από τηγανίτα τίποτα.

Όλα αυτά όμως είναι και άλλων νημάτων κλωστές, όπως μερικά που θυμάμαι τώρα:

Ο καθένας με τα λόγια χτίζει ανώγια και κατώγια

putting your money where your mouth is

Actions speak louder than words

walk the walk

---

No Action - Elvis Costello

glibido

 

[CoastalFog]

Spot on, Daeman!
Except in your last example, walk the walk?
Hmm, I'd say walk the talk is more common in US English usage.

In World English usage, however, it's hard to think of a 2-word translation for τζάμπα μάγκας that would be immediately and universally understood.

For the record, last time I checked, the US and Brazil had the lead in churning out volumes of slang every day!

 

[dominotheory]

Synonyms:

all bark and no bite; all bluff and bluster; all booster, no payload; all crown, no filling; all foam, no beer; all ham, no let; all hammer, no nail; all icing, no cake; all lime and salt, no tequila; all mouth and no trousers; all mouth and trousers; all shot, no powder; all sizzle and no steak; all talk; all talk and no action; all wax and no wick; all motion and no meat; all show, no go; all fart and no poo

Good luck!

That's a nice contribution, Παράκτιε, and it would have been a lot better if you had cited your source, though I believe you didn't do it on purpose. In fact, I'm sure. There's no trick, no attempt to misguide, just the original Wiktionary text. Having said this, I have to add that this is a high quality site and it deserves a certain degree of diligence, IMHO.

 

[CoastalFog]

That's a nice contribution, Παράκτιε, and it would have been a lot better if you had cited your source

With ref to "all hat and no cattle" you mean?
I already did. Just scroll up and look (Wiktionary).
The link color though is too dull to show.

(btw how do I change that? just underline the word too?)

 

[daeman]

...
Except in your last example, walk the walk?
Hmm, I'd say walk the talk is more common in US English usage.
...

Αλλάζει ο Μανωλιός και βάζει τις λέξεις του αλλιώς.

---

This beat's for y'all. Walk the walk - Poe

Hey, everybody, when you walk the walk
You gotta back it all up but can you talk the talk?
Hey, everybody, when I hear the knock
Don't wanna measure out my life to the tick of a clock

 

[pontios]

In the first sense of τζάμπα μάγκας, what you'll hear nationwide is false bravado.
Alternatively, as pontios already suggested, you can add just about anything you like after the word armchair: +hero, +rebel, +quarterback, +general, +warrior, etc.

"Sideline" probably works too?

It's easier to snipe from the sidelines than to play the game. There's no getting your hands dirty, no risks .
to take.

Sideline sniper in place of armchair critic...
It's easier and safer to be a sideline sniper than to put yourself in the spotlight and have to do the hard stuff.

You're just a sideline sniper, afraid of putting up some decent ideas of your own.

"Sideline" suggests relative safety - that you're not in/on the firing line (or in the line of fire), i.e., you're a safe distance from all the centre stage action.

 

[dominotheory]

With ref to "all hat and no cattle" you mean?
I already did. Just scroll up and look (Wiktionary).

You're right, I should have given it a closer look.

The link color though is too dull to show. (btw how do I change that? just underline the word too?)

Blue font or italics have proven to be really helpful and, to the best of my knowledge, are widely used.

 

[daeman]

...
Τα χρώματα του φόρουμ - Γρήγορος οδηγός


Unless most of us want to... erm... to shift the paradigm, changing colors. Let's have a poll!

 

[dominotheory]

The link color though is too dull to show.
(btw how do I change that? just underline the word too?)

Blue font or italics have proven to be really helpful and, to the best of my knowledge, are widely used.

I mean that you can have the whole text in blue font and part of it (e.g., the synonyms) in italics.