Sentence Workshop

[pontios]

I hope I'm not becoming a nuisance (I will limit it to 10 sentences and others are welcome to submit any sentences they are working on).

(Maybe the hyphen workshop should be deleted: it's relatively easy to google search compound words to determine if they need to be hyphenated or not; sentences are a different matter).

Here's a sentence I'm working on at the moment (and I welcome any suggestions).

If the detainees were to stray from these rules, they would be immediately isolated and would incur an appropriate punishment, which would be decided by an adjudicating officer according to the severity of the offence; and they would always be starved during their isolation.

Instead of " If the detainees were to..", I could write "Should the detainees stray ... " - but then I'm not sure if I'm in the right tense?

Another possible variation is ...

If the detainees were to stray from these rules, they would be immediately isolated and would incur an appropriate punishment, as decided by an adjudicating officer in accordance with the severity of the offence; and they would always be starved during their isolation.

Instead of "as decided", I'm now thinking "as to be decided" or (better still?) "as would be decided" might be the correct tense here?
Also, "they would immediately be isolated" vs "they would be immediately isolated"? .. but are we splitting infinitives?

 

[nickel]

Hi. Some of the points you have raised here:

If the detainees were to stray from these rules
Should the detainees stray from these rules
Same thing, same tenses to follow.

immediately
as a time adverb:
they would immediately be isolated
they would be isolated immediately
they would be immediately isolated
with the meaning ‘directly’:
they would be more immediately affected by the changes

an appropriate punishment, which would be decided > an appropriate punishment, to be decided

 

[daeman]

...
Also, "they would immediately be isolated" vs "they would be immediately isolated"? .. but are we splitting infinitives?

On splitting infinitives: Split infinitive

Διαβάζοντας αυτό θυμήθηκα ένα σχετικό αστείο του Douglas Adams από το Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy και διαπίστωσα ότι το αναφέρει και η Wikipedia στην ίδια σελίδα :-D :-D :-D
"In those days men were real men, women were real women, small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. And all dared to brave unknown terrors, to do mighty deeds, to boldly split infinitives that no man had split before — and thus was the Empire forged."

 

[pontios]

Thanks, guys. :)

nickel wrote ..
If the detainees were to stray from these rules
Should the detainees stray from these rules
Same thing, same tenses to follow.

Okay!

To be or not to pedantically be an infinitive splitter, what is the answer?


re: "according to the severity of the offence" vs "in accordance with the severity of the offence", I'm going to choose the former.
"in accordance with an offence" sounds wrong (c.f., say, "in accordance with the rules", which would be fine).

 

[nickel]

Καλημέρα. You split an infinitive when you separate 'to' from the verb. Where would you be splitting an infinitive in your sentence?

And, yes, "according to". Otherwise: in proportion to the severity of the offence / in relation to the severity of the offence.

 

[pontios]

Where would you be splitting an infinitive in your sentence?

Hi, nickel.
Because I haven't really delved into it (or maybe I've forgotten the concept?), I (wrongly) assumed that a split infinitive arises whenever a word is inserted between a verb (e.g., they would immediately be), whereas (I now realise) an example of the construct would be "to boldy go", where the verb is in its infinitive form "to go".

 

[pontios]

There's a pause in the following two sentences, where the flow or cadence is interrupted, which I've indicated with a dash.
The pause feels longer than a comma. Should I use a semicolon in place of the dash?

They would spend this special day walking around Oradea, usually in circles of three or four friends, dressed in their uniforms but minus their hats, visiting shops, enjoying meals and drinking in moderation - always behaving in the disciplined manner that was expected of them.


On his first outing, Yiannos went into a barber shop and came out a different person - with his hair clipped back and tidied up and his beard clean shaven.

 

[nickel]

Hi. Yes, I like the dash in both cases.

It is best to use the so-called em dash, i.e. the long one (—). I type it in by pressing Alt and then 0151 in the numeric keypad (while keeping Alt pressed).
In Word you can also do it by combining Control-Alt-Numeric keypad dash, but as I use it all the time I've programmed two dashes to become an en dash (–) and the en dash plus one more dash to become an em dash.

In the second sentence, in more formal approaches, you would have the colon in place of the dash (note the added comma, too):
[He] came out a different person: with his hair clipped back and tidied up, and his beard clean shaven.


(Drop the 'but' before 'minus': 'dressed in their uniforms minus the hats'. Is it 'hats'?)

 

[pontios]

Thank you, nickel.

I wasn't aware of the longer (em) dash.

Your additional comma in the second sentence makes sense and, you're right, the "but" is superfluous in the first sentence.

I might replace hats with visor caps or visor hats?

 

[nickel]

I might replace hats with visor caps or visor hats?

They could be visor hats / peaked caps, or they could be berets. I think 'peaked caps' is the best bet.

 

[pontios]

They could be visor hats / peaked caps, or they could be berets. I think 'peaked caps' is the best bet.

Thanks, nickel.
I'll run it past "the spymaster" (my uncle) to see what he thinks.

 

[pontios]

re: punctuation in and around quotation marks.
I just wanted to check if I'm doing it right, and I've just come up with these lame examples (sorry I couldn't think of anything better).

James sighed before continuing, "I know it was you who stole my bike."
or James sighed before he continued, "I know it was you who stole my bike."

James said,"I know it was you who stole my bike."

James looked upset. "I know it was you who stole my bike, Fred," he shouted.
or James looked upset. "I know it was you who stole my bike, Fred!" he shouted.

"I know it was you who stole my bike,"James said and then continued, "Why did you steal it?"
"Why did you steal my bike?" he said and then added,"Bring it back, you thief."

 

[nickel]

They all look OK to me. (I think there's only a missing space in the last example but one.)

 

[pontios]

Thanks, nickel. :)

Here's a couple of sentences.
I'm particularly interested in the second sentence (and I needed to sound you out again, sorry).

Barba Dimitri suspended two bags containing his wares from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping that he would attract less attention this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he thought to himself.

It's a rhetorical question, which he's thinking here - so do I use italics (and if so, should "he thought to himself" also be italicised?)?
Also, should I have written he had thought to himself (which I'm starting to lean towards), and (while I'm at it)"threat could over "threat would?

 

[pontios]

edit ..."hoping to attract less attention this way" just came to me and it may be an improvement, I think (over "hoping (that) he would attract less attention this way"- as long as the tense remains consistent).

I'm not sure how this sounds?

Barba Dimitri suspended two bags containing his wares from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping to attract less attention this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he (had?) thought to himself.

 

[pontios]

(This isn't a nudge ;) ) .. I just noticed an ambiguity (that the wares either originated/were sourced from or belonged to his shoulders).

So I've changed it to this (for now).
Barba Dimitri suspended two bags (containing his wares) from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping to attract less attention this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he (had?) thought to himself.

Now I've realised there's too many hisses (did he take a serpentine route?) .. his wares, his shoulders, his grandson's hand, his trek, his grandson - I can't win.

 

[nickel]

Oops, missed this. Here's the version I like:

Barba Dimitri suspended two bags containing his wares from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping to attract less attention in this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he thought to himself.

And, no, you don't use italics for thoughts. I think this is a device used in subtitling. We use words such as said, exclaimed, thought, said to himself and the like to make such things clear. Remember that a piece of text is often read to others.

 

[pontios]

Oops, missed this. Here's the version I like:

Barba Dimitri suspended two bags containing his wares from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping to attract less attention in this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he thought to himself.

And, no, you don't use italics for thoughts. I think this is a device used in subtitling. We use words such as said, exclaimed, thought, said to himself and the like to make such things clear. Remember that a piece of text is often read to others.

Thanks, nickel.
Some good advice.
I've changed it to this.. (please give me a heads up if you think it needs further changing - should I have stuck with the brackets?).

Barba Dimitri suspended two bags, containing his wares, from his shoulders and, holding his grandson's hand, resumed his trek towards the village of Amohori, hoping to attract less attention in this way. "What threat would a kindly grandpa with his grandson possibly pose?" he thought to himself.

By the way, is it okay or normal practice to italicise subnotes and explanations?

 

[nickel]

I actually dropped your brackets that made 'containing his wares' parenthetical and I'd suggest dropping the commas as well. There is no ambiguity here. When you see 'suspend something', you sort of expect the 'from' to follow.

 

[pontios]

I actually dropped your brackets that made 'containing his wares' parenthetical and I'd suggest dropping the commas as well. There is no ambiguity here. When you see 'suspend something', you sort of expect the 'from' to follow.

OK, thanks, nickel.
I've asked a further question (sorry) re: subnotes - should they be italicised?