debriefing

[nickel]

a romantic Dostoyevsky kind of, you know, debriefing experience

Πού να χωρέσει η ρομαντική ντοστογιεφσκική εμπειρία σε όλα αυτά;;;

 

[cougr]

Εμένα μου φαίνεται ότι μπορεί να εννοούσε μια εμπειρία κάθαρσης [...]

Κάπως έτσι το εννοεί, δηλαδή, μια εμπειρία πνευματικής/ψυχολογικής κάθαρσης ή διεξόδου με σκοπό την ανανέωση και αναζωογόνηση.

 

[pontios]

Το ταξίδι με το τρένο ήταν μια ευκαιρία να ξεκουραστεί και να χαλαρώσει, χωρίς αμφιβολία.
Όμως, όσον αφορά το Dostievsky debriefing experience - νομίζω ο σκηνοθέτης περίμενε ότι το ταξίδι στο Orient Express (δήθεν ένα ρομαντικό τρένο) θα τον ενέπνεε επίσης να διαβάσει τον Ντοστογιέφσκι - να τον κάνει "debrief" (δηλαδή να μάθει για τα ρομαντικά χρόνια της Ρωσίας μέσα από τα έργα του - σαν να τον ρωτάει τον ίδιο) - αλλά επειδή δεν ήταν εντυπωσιασμένος με το διάσημο τρένο, δεν ήταν καθόλου ρομαντικό - προτίμησε να διαβάσει το Great Gatsby.

Περίμενε μια ρομαντική εμπειρία στο τρένο επάνω αλλά απογοητεύτηκε.

 

[pontios]

.. just adding (to my above post) - νομίζω λοιπόν ότι το debrief εδώ χρησιμοποιείται με τη συνήθη έννοια του όρου.

 

[cougr]

Incidentally, I should clarify that my post above pertained to the meaning of "debrief" as found in the sentence "...In my mind, I thought it was gonna debrief me, it was gonna be great." (#12)

In regard to the expression "romantic Dostoyevsky kind of....... debriefing experience", I think that Luhrmann was alluding to the idealistic notion of escaping from the confines and/or harshness of everyday reality, which is a theme frequently associated with the romantic movement.

 

[pontios]

Incidentally I should clarify that my post above pertained to the meaning of "debrief" as found in the sentence "...In my mind, I thought it was gonna debrief me, it was gonna be great." (#12)

In regard to the expression "romantic Dostoyevsky kind of....... debriefing experience", I think that Luhrmann was alluding to the notion of escaping from the confines and/or harshness of everyday reality, which is a theme frequently associated with the romantic movement.

Isn't that the whole purpose of a trip - to escape the everyday reality?

 

[cougr]

In many cases yes but my point is that Luhrmann was attempting to convey the fact that within a few moments of boarding the train he realised that it wasn't going to be a luxuriously ideal experience but rather, a rough-and-ready one.

 

[pontios]

I agree, cougr.

This is my theory/stab in the dark, FWIW.
Given that Lurhmann directs romantic epics - he booked the trip hoping that the romantic setting on-board the Russian train, which he probably (romantically at least) imagined as a conduit to Dostoevsky's (romantic) spirit (and to a higher truth), would inspire him to "introspect" .. that's what I think he meant by "to debrief me". The train was meant to be conducive to introspection.
So "it was gonna debrief me" = it was gonna cause me/induce me to "introspect" - cause me to self-connect, self-explore.
Maybe this was meant as a kind of ritual in his continuous search for self improvement, a higher ("romantic") truth - the Dostoyevsky debriefing experience that didn't happen, as the romanticism dissipated and the inspiration fizzled inside the rickety old tin train.

So debrief is used in its normal sense - and debrief me = induce me to introspect.

 

[cougr]

Possibly, but given the vast array of possible interpretations perhaps only Luhrmann himself can enlighten us as to what he specifically means when using the term.

In another article I found this:

After "La Boheme" gets its Broadway launch, Luhrmann plans a rare three- month "debriefing" to rest, travel, contemplate his next project and, he hopes, start a family with Martin.

So perhaps he just means a bit of rest and recreation with a bit of contemplation thrown in for good measure.

 

[Alexandra]

Έτσι κατάλαβα κι εγώ κάποια στιγμή. Ότι χρησιμοποιεί το "debriefing" με περίεργο τρόπο. Το απέδωσα "χαλάρωση", πάντως.

 

[cougr]

Νομίζω ότι καλά έκανες, Alex.

 

[pontios]

Possibly, but given the vast array of possible interpretations perhaps only Luhrmann himself can enlighten us as to what he specifically means when using the term.

In another article I found this:

After "La Boheme" gets its Broadway launch, Luhrmann plans a rare three- month "debriefing" to rest, travel, contemplate his next project and, he hopes, start a family with Martin.

So perhaps he just means a bit of rest and recreation with a bit of contemplation thrown in for good measure.

He wants to relax of course, but it sounds like he also wants to bring emotional closure to his last project, La Boheme, to leave it behind and to recharge himself for his next project. I guess before he can start focussing on his next project he'd first need to let go of any emotional baggage - of any emotional attachment and investment he had in La Boheme - and that's where I think the debriefing (or self debriefing/self contemplation) comes into it essentially.
You can't undergo debriefing or self debriefing (he is debriefing himself here) without self contemplation and introspection - and the rest and travel is perhaps part of and conducive to the whole process (of debriefing) for him.
It would be wrong in my opinion to equate debriefing with relaxing (they are two different things!) - I think you need to look beyond that.
So I don't think the contemplation, or "a bit of contemplation" is "thrown in for good measure" as you say - I believe that it is the essential part of "debriefing".

 

[pontios]

Εμένα μου φαίνεται ότι μπορεί να εννοούσε μια εμπειρία κάθαρσης (υπερβολικό, ίσως), τελειώματος, ολοκλήρωσης μιας δουλειάς. Όπως το debriefing γίνεται στο κλείσιμο μιας αποστολής.

I just want to add - I think the good dr. nailed it.. (I just scanned through the older posts).

Νομίζω και εγώ ότι εννοεί (κατά κυριολεξία) μια διαδικασία κάθαρσης (purging the mind of burdensome thoughts/ καταπιεστικές σκέψεις) και ολοκλήρωσης (closure), στην προκειμένη περίπτωση.
Είναι μια συνειδητή προσπάθεια και διαδικασία, πάντως.

 

[cougr]

G'day pontios,

In regard to your two posts above I just wanted to note that I also agreed with the good doctor, however, as I have alluded to previously, because of the vast amount of differing meanings and types of "debriefing" (and I use "vast" here advisedly) and the fact that debriefing doesn't always necessarily involve introspection, reflection, closure and the like, one needs to be open as to it's interpretation where this isn't clearly delineated.

Also, due to the fact that in many contexts the term "debriefing" is inextricably linked with "relaxation", "unwinding", "de-stressing", "letting ones hair down" etc. etc., you'll find that the term is often used as code for these.

It is perhaps also noteworthy that in the article on Luhrmann to which I previously referred to (#29), when describing "debriefing" (apparently a term that Luhrmann uses often), the writer begins his account with the words rest and travel and concludes without any mention of the terms introspection, self-reflection, catharsis etc.

 

[pontios]

Well said, cougr.

Also, due to the fact that in many contexts the term "debriefing" is inextricably linked with "relaxation", "unwinding", "de-stressing", "letting ones hair down" etc. etc., you'll find that the term is often used as code for these.

I'm thinking that maybe it's code here for both unwinding/de-stressing etc.. + letting go (of a completed project/mission)?
There's an underlying sense of letting go/closure here too.

It's like a state of relaxed detachment (where the mind is cleared/de-cluttered and disengaged from a completed project) so you can cope with and focus fully on the next gruelling engagement (well that's the aim of "debriefing", I think, as it applies here at least to Luhrmann).

I always respect your opinion.

 

[Zazula]

Από το Ορόγραμμα 124:

Για τους όρους briefing και debriefing προτείνονται οι νεολογικές αποδόσεις:

brief (ουσ.)|σύνοψη
brief (ρήμα)|συνοψίζω, προσυνοψίζω (π.χ. όταν γίνεται πριν από μια στρατιωτική αποστολή)
briefing|συνόψιση, προσυνόψιση
debrief (ρήμα)|μετασυνοψίζω
debriefing|μετασυνόψιση

Οπότε η πρόταση για τον δεύτερο όρο είναι:
critical incident stress debriefing -> μετασυνόψιση της κατάστασης πίεσης κρίσιμων περιστατικών

 

[drsiebenmal]

critical incident stress debriefing -> μετασυνόψιση της κατάστασης πίεσης κρίσιμων περιστατικών

Χμμμ, και όχι της πιεστικής κατάστασης;

 

[Zazula]

Χμμμ, και όχι της πιεστικής κατάστασης;

Για αυτό έχει αναφέρει παραπάνω:

Μετά το αίτημα της κας Μαρίας Σαμαρά, στο Φέισμπουκ σχετικά με τους όρους: critical incident stress management και critical incident stress debriefing. Ακολουθεί το σκεπτικό και οι ελληνικές αποδόσεις:

Σχετικά με τον όρο incident η απόδοση περιστατικό είναι καταλληλότερη από το συμβάν, που αποδίδει συνήθως τον όρο event.

Όσον αφορά το stress (και στην ψυχολογία) αποδίδεται με το δάνειο στρες, αλλά και ως πίεση, κατάσταση πίεσης.

Οπότε η πρόταση για τον πρώτο όρο είναι:
critical incident stress management -> διαχείριση της κατάστασης πίεσης κρίσιμων περιστατικών

 

[drsiebenmal]

Ναι, αλλά και εδώ νομίζω ότι η απόδοση δεν είναι σαφής, επειδή δεν διαφαίνεται αν είναι πιεστική η κατάσταση (με άλλα λόγια: διαχείριση της πιεστικής κατάστασης στα κρίσιμα περιστατικά) ή τα κρίσιμα περιστατικά (κάτι που είναι σχεδόν ταυτολογικό). Τεσπα, point of view.

 

[Earion]

Όχι τεσπα, γιατί κι εγώ δεν το καταλαβαίνω.