μαρκάρω (μτφ.)

[drsiebenmal]

From ancient times, lips are considered as a substitute for nipples (and painted accordingly), nothing new there under the sun...

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, all: pontios, Duke & Dr. So despite the Duke's confusion, how do we translate ρόγες σταφύλι? 'Grape nipples'? 'Nipples red as grapes'? I have never come across the equation of nipples=grapes. Can you give more instances in addition to the lexicological one? :) This song seems capable of so many interpretations. We are back to Nickel's observation & the Duke's confusion...:blush::twit:

 

[daeman]

...
ρώγα ή ρόγα; ρώγα (του σταφυλιού ή του μαστού)

... This song seems capable of so many interpretations.

That may be so, but trust me, that song is not worth it, just as Neikos wrote in post #8 above.

If we're to discuss, thoroughly dissect and analyze a song down to the last bite, morsel, sip or whiff, it should be worth the time and effort to do so.

I still owe you one to make up for all this fuss, but for the life of me I can't say when I'll be able to. I'm in search of lost time.

 

[Theseus]

Hi, 'Man, after a long time! I had taken Neikos’s advice and I have been watching some really good subtitled videos recommended by him. My obsessive nature unfortunately made me ask these further questions, as other colleagues clearly thought the song was worthy of comment. And all because I found απ’ το φιλί μια τζούρα hard to understand! To be honest, I haven’t spent much time at all on this song recently. But I have to try to know what’s going on, as in the subtitled BBC video, mentioned in another post, where Neikos has been excellent in his help to me. :)

 

[Duke_of_Waltham]

From ancient times, lips are considered as a substitute for nipples (and painted accordingly), nothing new there under the sun...

Ούτε εγώ το γνώριζα αυτό. Από την άλλη, μια σχετική αναζήτηση στο διαδίκτυο με οδήγησε, όπως συχνά συμβαίνει, σε κάτι το εντελώς απροσδόκητο – που όμως μας επαναφέρει στα βαμμένα χείλη, άρα υποθέτω πως ταιριάζει κι αυτό με τον τρόπο του.

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, Duke. The song might not be worth much but the comments & feedback shown in this thread have sparked off lots of interest. That, at least, has been worth it!:)

 

[drsiebenmal]

For the translation, I would play it safe, with something like "lips having the colour of (red) grapes".

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, Dr. I must say despite the disparaging comments made about it, I quite liked it, but 'Man doesn't so I bow to his greater judgement. :) Your translation I like: it has a good balance to it--τσιπουράδικα and (red) grape-coloured lips/πίνουν αγάπες και βαμμένα χείλη....

 

[pontios]

απ’ το φιλί μια τζούρα
τον πόνο το μαρκάρανε

.. maybe it's referring to the the healing/soothing power of a kiss (reduces the pain) - metaphorically "kissing it better"?

μαρκαρω = marking = planting a kiss on the sore spot (Χ marks the spot)?

Kissing something better -- (urban dictionary)
literally kissing whatever area hurts in order to make it feel better.

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, Pontios. Μαρκάρω seems to have so many meanings! Maybe ΕΝ ΠΛΩ had no idea what it meant & just used the word because of the pleasing rhyme. I now think that as (perhaps) the Dr hinted the ρόγες σταφύλι means nipples like grapes i.e. protruding. I am not spending much time on the song now but any new entry is worth looking at. Thanks again. :)

 

[Theseus]

Aren't we all in search of lost time, 'Man... ..

 

[daeman]

...
Borrowed Time - John Lennon

 

[Theseus]

And Lennon is dead; his time is up. Gloomy thinking but all of us, the older we get, live on borrowed time. Ζούμε ήδη με δανεικό χρόνο. οι ώρες μας είναι μετρημένες. Τι αφυπνιστική σκέψη!

 

[pontios]

We're just "marking" time, you could say,Theseus, until something juicier comes along (that we could sink our collective teeth into).
;)

 

[Theseus]

Χαχαχα, Πόντιο. Αρχίσαμε με το μαρκάρω και με το μαρκάρω τελειώσαμε. :)

 

[SBE]

Theseus, here is a children's poem by Zacharias Papantoniou, which I remember from primary school, and which might clarify your confusion about grapes. There is no double entendre here, unless you have a very vivid imagination:
Σε μια ρώγα από σταφύλι
έπεσαν οχτώ σπουργίτες
και τρωγόπιναν οι φίλοι.
Τσίρι τίρι, τσιριτρό,
τσιριτρί τσιριτρό!

Εχτυπούσανε τις μύτες
και κουνούσαν τις ουρές,
κι είχαν γέλια και χαρές.
Τσίρι τίρι, τσιριτρό,
τσιριτρί τσιριτρό!

Πώπω, πώπω, σε μια ρώγα
φαγοπότι και φωνή!
την αφήκαν αδειανή.
Τσίρι τίρι, τσιριτρό,
τσιριτρί τσιριτρό!

Και μεθύσαν κι όλη μέρα
πάνε δώθε, πάνε πέρα,
τραγουδώντας στον αέρα.
Τσίρι τίρι, τσιριτρό,
τσιριτρί τσιριτρό!

 

[pontios]

μαρκάρω [markáro] -ομαι Ρ6 : 1α. (αθλ., για παίχτη αντίπαλης ομάδας) παρακολουθώ από κοντά κπ. και παρεμποδίζω τις κινήσεις του: Παίχτης που μαρκάρει με επιτυχία τον αντίπαλο. β. (μτφ.) παρεμποδίζω κπ. ή κτ. 2. βάζω χαρακτηριστικό, αναγνωριστικό σημάδι σε κτ.: Nα μαρκάρεις τα ρούχα πριν τα δώσεις για πλύσιμο. Dictionary of Standard Modern Greek.


It was fun guessing, but we should have simply referred to the Dictionary of Standard Modern Greek! - which gives the metaphorical meaning of μαρκάρω.

απ’ το φιλί μια τζούρα
τον πόνο το μαρκάρανε

Whatever the sailors (or sailors' lips) "kissed" /puffed or sipped on had an "analgesic" or calming effect - i.e., it blocked/checked/inhibited/reduced their (psychological) pain/anguish.

 

[nickel]

That was the explanation given by Marinos right from the start, in #2.

 

[Theseus]

Εντάξει. Ο Μαρίνος μου τα έλεγε: Κοιλοπόνεσε το βουνό και γέννησε ποντίκι/ὤδινεν ὄρος καὶ ἔτεκεν μῦν/πολύ κακό για τίποτα! Πληρωσες τα λεφτα σου, τωρα διαλεξε.......or is there a Greek proverbial equivalent for 'you pays your penny & you takes your choice!' Thanks, SBE, for your lovely nursery rhyme. I'm in the process of translating it but it's fairly straightforward apart from one or two queries. Does Εχτυπούσανε τις μύτες mean 'they clashed beaks'. What is the difference between ρώγα & σταφύλι. Is σταφύλι the same as τσαμπί? :)

 

[Theseus]

Incidentally, Nickel, Marinos in #4 says that he can't make [out] what μαρκάρω means in this context. :)