Your Greek never does a proper day's work

[Theseus]

Heard in a restaurant by a pub 'expert' on the woes of the EU. I had a good argument with him and, I think, won the day. A great source of inspiration was the following article:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...oud-but-powerless-the-Greece-that-I-love.html
How would you say - and mean disparagingly 'Your Greek/your Englishman' &c. What would be the form of the diminutive or would something else be used.:curse:

 

[nickel]

I'm working on the following:
Ο μέσος Έλληνας ποτέ (του) δε δουλεύει σωστή μέρα.

where σωστός = ολόκληρος, ακέραιος.
Of course, there are ways to put it which would be closer to the intended meaning, e.g.
Η παραγωγικότητα του μέσου Έλληνα είναι για κλάματα.
:)

 

[daeman]

Ο «μέσος» μες στη μέση είναι απαραίτητος;
Ο Έλληνας τεμπελιάζει, ο Γερμανός φωνάζει κι ο Άγγλος στην παμπ αρλούμπες αραδιάζει.
(Luckily, Theseus is a gallant mythbuster ;)).

An idea for a disparaging form would be the suffix -αράς (eg Ελληναράς, Γερμαναράς) but unfortunately it can be used with few nationalities. I haven't heard of "Αμερικαναράς", "Αγγλαράς" or "Γαλλαράς"; the common ones are "αμερικανάκι", "εγγλεζάκι" and "γαλλάκι", but those are simple diminutives, they don't convey the same meaning, imho, and they could also mean a young American, English or French. The typical Italian is called "ιταλιάνος" / "ιταλιάνα".

 

[sarant]

Yes, but Theseus wants a disparaging usage equivalent to 'Your Greek'. I would say Αυτοί οι Έλληνες..., singular will not do here.

 

[daeman]

Σωστά, και +1 για το «Αυτοί οι Έλληνες», προφορικά ενισχυμένο με τον κατάλληλο τόνο της φωνής και οπτικά με το κατάλληλο ύφος.
Πού θωρούσες ακίνητος, Δαεμάνε, πού έτρεχε ο λογισμός σου;

 

[drsiebenmal]

Maybe ο Ελληνάρας (not Ελληναράς, which has imho a more nationalistic tone).

 

[daeman]

Lepa razlike lepo gore. Oι όμορφες διακρίσεις όμορφα καίγονται, στον πληθυντικό ιδίως.
Για να πω την αλήθεια, δεν ξέρω, μάλλον έχεις δίκιο. But we could always start all over again there.

 

[Hellegennes]

Ο «μέσος» μες στη μέση είναι απαραίτητος;
Ο Έλληνας τεμπελιάζει, ο Γερμανός φωνάζει κι ο Άγγλος στην παμπ αρλούμπες αραδιάζει.
(Luckily, Theseus is a gallant mythbuster ;)).

An idea for a disparaging form would be the suffix -αράς (eg Ελληναράς, Γερμαναράς) but unfortunately it can be used with few nationalities. I haven't heard of "Αμερικαναράς", "Αγγλαράς" or "Γαλλαράς"; the common ones are "αμερικανάκι", "εγγλεζάκι" and "γαλλάκι", but those are simple diminutives, they don't convey the same meaning, imho, and they could also mean a young American, English or French. The typical Italian is called "ιταλιάνος" / "ιταλιάνα".

There's Αγγλάρας. It's a popular form amongst Greek students in the UK.

 

[daeman]

Ευχαριστώ, Ελληγεννή (σωστά το γράφω; ), δεν το ήξερα. :)

Edit: Να μαζέψουμε κι άλλα εδώ, όπως Τουρκαλάς π.χ.; Άλλα δεν μου 'ρχονται, γι' αυτό ρωτάω.
Μόνο ο Μασσαλιώτης, Μαρσεγιέζος, Μαρσεγέζος, Φωκαιεύς, Σεγόβριγας, Μασσαλός, *Μασσαλεύς, *Μασσαλέας, κι αυτό είναι από πόλη.

 

[Philip]

Yer average pub expert is given to generalisations & is generally an expert on why everybody else is short-sighted, corrupt or just generally wrong. :)

For the "your" in this kind of usage, I find myself thinking of the Greek phrase που λες. 1) It is interactive, & corresponds in that sense to "your". 2) rightly or wrongly I associate it with (though not exclusively with) generalisations. It doesn't seem to me to be necessarily disparaging in itself, but the disparagement if present would be crystal clear from the rest of the sentence. 3) it also seems to me to be a way of introducing a topic (by attracting the listener's ear & setting up an expectation that something is about to be embarked on). Not sure whether this would fit your context, but it might.

It might part-fulfil your question of equivalence. Any φυσικός ομιλητής have any comment on this?

I also agree with sarant. You might combine the two: Αυτοί οι Έλληνες, που λες, .../ Που λες, αυτοί οι Έλληνες ...

 

[daeman]

[...]It might part-fulfil your question of equivalence. Any φυσικός ομιλητής have any comment on this?

I also agree with sarant. You might combine the two: Αυτοί οι Έλληνες, που λες, .../ Που λες, αυτοί οι Έλληνες ...

As a native speaker - not as an expert of any kind, pub or otherwise - I'd say: Αυτός είσαι! (personal) or Αυτό είναι! (impersonal), especially for the last combination which can be used both as an introduction of the topic and a handy reintroduction after an interruption, for the next round perhaps.

 

[nickel]

I forgot about Theseus’ request for a disparaging way of expressing “Your Greek”. It didn’t strike me as especially disparaging, though my “μέσος Έλληνας” is of a somewhat higher level. I like sarant’s “Αυτοί οι Έλληνες” and I like Philip’s “Οι Έλληνες, που λες», but I like it better with “που λες” not as a parenthetical phrase but as a restrictive relative: “Οι Έλληνες που λες” (The Greeks you’re talking about…).

 

[daeman]

Αυτό δεν είναι και θέμα τονισμού; Δηλαδή «Οι Έλληνες που λες...» (οι Έλληνες που εννοείς) ίσως να ήταν με τονισμένο το your, ενώ στο εισαγωγικό «Που λες, αυτοί οι Έλληνες...» ή το παρενθετικό «Αυτοί οι Έλληνες, που λες,» να ήταν τονισμένο το Greek, ή είναι εντύπωσή μου (και η ώρα δύσκολη);

 

[nickel]

Ναι, και φαντάζομαι ότι εξαρτάται από το τι έχει προηγηθεί. Στο δικό μου σενάριο, που λες, μού βγήκε αναφορική. :)

 

[Philip]

but I like it better with “που λες” not as a parenthetical phrase but as a restrictive relative: “Οι Έλληνες που λες” (The Greeks you’re talking about…).

but then it wouldn't be a generalisation - I think yer bloke in the pub was having a go at all Greeks, innit?:)

 

[nickel]

Mmm, I must have been working on a wrong scenario.