Two lines of Manolis Anagnostakis

[Theseus]

Here is the full poem by the above:-

Οι στίχοι αυτοί μπορεί και να ’ναι οι τελευταίοι
Οι τελευταίοι στους τελευταίους που θα γραφτούν
Γιατί οι μελλούμενοι ποιητές δε ζούνε πια
Αυτοί που θα μιλούσανε πεθάναν όλοι νέοι.
Τα θλιβερά τραγούδια τους γενήκανε πουλιά
Σε κάποιον άλλο ουρανό που λάμπει ξένος ήλιος
Γενήκαν άγριοι ποταμοί και τρέχουνε στη θάλασσα
Και τα νερά τους δεν μπορείς να ξεχωρίσεις.
Στα θλιβερά τραγούδια τους φύτρωσε ένας λωτός
Να γεννηθούμε στο χυμό του εμείς πιο νέοι.

I'm not sure about the punctuation & meaning of the last two lines. Do they mean 'in their sad songs a lotus flower has blossomed so that we too in its sap can be born younger'?

 

[Duke_of_Waltham]

Λωτός is also the Greek name for the persimmon tree, so it could be referring to that. Otherwise, your translation seems correct; I see no missing commas, except perhaps between the two lines (where the για is implied).

 

[Earion]

You got it right, Theseus.

 

[Theseus]

Θεγξ, κύριοι.:)

 

[Earion]

May we have the rest of the poem in your best English?

 

[Theseus]

Yes, Earion, as soon as I can do them. I've been very busy since I've come back from Wales after our long weekend. I'll translate them tomorrow.:)

 

[Theseus]

An attempt at a translation for Earion:-

These verses may be the last--
The very last of those which shall be written for the last:
For the poets of the future no longer live
Those who could speak died young.
And their songs of pain have become birds
In another sky where shines a foreign sun;
They have become wild rivers running to the sea
Where you lose all track of their waters.
Yet in their songs of pain a lotus has blossomed
And we can drink its sap and be reborn younger.

The italic means that I have supplied the word to emphasise the last couplet where εμείς seems to hint at an adversative conjunction. Please tear apart the translation & correct where I have fallen short, for translation is a sacred art.

 

[nickel]

The very last of those which shall be written for the last

It's an excellent translation but I don't understand "for the last" here. Why not just the more effective "The very last of those which shall be written last"?

For those who love their syntax straight and unpoetic, I'd have written "In another sky ignited by a foreign sun". :)

Bravo once again!

 

[Theseus]

Thanks, Nickel. Your 'bravo' is praise indeed. Here are the alterations I have made:--

These verses may be the last--
The very last of those which shall be written last:
For the poets of the future no longer live
Those who could speak died young.
And their songs of pain have become birds
In another sky set ablaze by a foreign sun;
They have become wild rivers running to the sea
Where you lose all track of their waters.
Yet in their songs of pain a lotus has blossomed
And we can drink its sap and be reborn younger.

 

[Earion]

Congratulations! :clap:

 

[SBE]

Personally I think the λωτός referred to here is the fruit, like the fruit in the Odyssey, or persimmon.
The lotus flower is άνθος του λωτού= νυμφαίο ή νούφαρο (γενικώς).

 

[nickel]

The Duke mentioned the persimmon too. But to be on the safe side, one sticks to "lotus" in English, I suppose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus-eaters#Lotus_plant

 

[daeman]

...
Τι έτρωγαν οι Λωτοφάγοι;

...
τῶν δ᾽ ὅς τις λωτοῖο φάγοι μελιηδέα καρπόν,
οὐκέτ᾽ ἀπαγγεῖλαι πάλιν ἤθελεν οὐδὲ νέεσθαι,
ἀλλ᾽ αὐτοῦ βούλοντο μετ᾽ ἀνδράσι Λωτοφάγοισι
λωτὸν ἐρεπτόμενοι μενέμεν νόστου τε λαθέσθαι.

όποιος κι αν έφαγε λωτό, τον μελιστάλαχτο καρπό,
ξεχνούσε την αποστολή του, δεν ήθελε τον γυρισμό·
κι αυτοί βουλήθηκαν εκεί να μείνουν με τους Λωτοφάγους,
μασώντας τον λωτό, τον νόστο λησμονώντας.

μτφ. Δ. Ν. Μαρωνίτη

 

[SBE]

The Duke mentioned the persimmon too. But to be on the safe side, one sticks to "lotus" in English, I suppose.

Lotus the fruit (persimmon) or lotus the flower? It is significant, because then it talks about χυμός. Juice or sap?

 

[Theseus]

Thanks to all. Just a point, 'Man, your link to μτφ. Δ. Ν. Μαρωνίτη is faulty and the information there won't upload. We must, I think, as Nickel says, leave it as lotus but I think that it is as SBE suggests a plant rather than a treeThere is a comprehensive article about the lotus at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus-eaters. The etymology of the word may be the Semitic lot (= myrrh) but whatever the plant was it seems to be a narcotic of some kind:-


'The blue lotus (already known under this name to the Greeks), is another candidate. It can be processed to be used as a soporific and, in some formulations, has psychotropic properties. It is common in Egyptian iconography....'

 

[daeman]

... Just a point, 'Man, your link to μτφ. Δ. Ν. Μαρωνίτη is faulty and the information there won't upload. ...

Try it now, Theseus. The whole domain of greek-language.gr has been on and off line... on and off this weekend, but right now it works.

 

[Duke_of_Waltham]

Ώστε έχει όντως προβλήματα ο ιστότοπος, τελικά. Κι εγώ που νόμιζα ότι έφταιγε η σύνδεση, που κάνει νερά...

 

[Theseus]

Θεγξ και στους δυο σας.:)

 

[Earion]

For your information, Theseus, Manolis Anagnostakis (1925-2005) was one of the major Greek poets of his generation, very influential, and the least known to an English-speaking audience (Wikipedia). He belonged to the Lost Generation, or so-called Generation of Defeat, i.e. the left-wing intellectuals that flourished after the Civil War. His sister, a prominent playwright died yesterday. As a proof of how influential he was, suffice to say that the prime minister quoted him this evening in Parliament.

 

[Theseus]

Thanks for the info, Earion. I thought that those lines I attempted to translate were outstanding. Since I have been a member of Lexilogia, my horizons have been extended in unimaginable directions: songs I have heard, poetry to translate, a language 'oh, so old and yet so new' to learn--I wake up in gratitude every morning feeling younger because of what I have learned. And yet I feel like an ignorant schoolboy when faced with an apparently simple song as in my last thread είδα μάτια πολλά.......