Consolamentum = "παραμυθία", "παρηγορία" (πνευματικό βάπτισμα των Καθαρών)
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Σε βιβλίο που μετέφρασα πρόσφατα απλώς μετέφερα τον όρο «κονσολαμέντουμ» (έτσι, σε εισαγωγικά): Οι Καθαροί πίστευαν επίσης [...] Η κοινωνία τους, το «κονσολαμέντουμ», δινόταν μόνο σε ανθρώπους στο νεκρικό κρεβάτι τους [...]
Rogerios
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Η πρώτη μου επιλογή θα ήταν να το αφήσω αμετάφραστο στα λατινικά, ειδάλλως η παρηγορία εντός εισαγωγικών μια χαρά είναι. Το μυστήριο σηματοδοτούσε τη μετάβαση του απλού πιστού στην τάξη των "Τέλειων" ή "Εκλεκτών" (parfaits), όπου ανήκαν μόνον οι "διάκονοι" των Καθαρών δηλ. οι ιερείς τους. Πράγματι, η τήρηση των υποχρεώσεων που συνεπαγόταν η μετάβαση αυτή ήταν ουσιαστικά αδύνατη για τον απλό άνθρωπο. Επομένως, το consolamentum δινόταν μόνο στους ετοιμοθάνατους πιστούς ή (σε περιόδους ένοπλων αγώνων για την υπεράσπιση της πίστης των Καθαρών) σε πολεμιστές πριν από τη μάχη, έτσι ώστε να αποκλεισθεί ο κίνδυνος να πεθάνουν ως ατελώς πιστοί (που να βρεθεί Καθαρός διάκονος στο πεδίο της μάχης να δώσει consolamentum στον βαριά λαβωμένο πολεμιστή ενώ ψυχορραγεί). Στη δεύτερη περίπτωση, οι δεσμεύσεις που αναλάμβανε ο μαχητής ανακαλούνταν αυτομάτως αν επέστρεφε σώος από τον πόλεμο.
ΥΓ: τι λέει η ελληνική μετάφραση του '"Μονταγιού";
ΥΓ: τι λέει η ελληνική μετάφραση του '"Μονταγιού";
Το αφήνει αμετάφραστο (consolamentum).
Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie. Μονταγιού: ένα οξιτανικό χωριό από το 1294 έως το 1324. Μετάφραση Εύα Καλπουρτζή, Νίκος Κούρκουλος - επίμετρο Εύα Καλπουρτζή. Αθήνα: Εκδόσεις του Εικοστού Πρώτου, 2008). Ωστόσο έχω έναν καλό λόγο για τους μεταφραστές, γιατί λένε: νεοτερικός.
Αμετάφραστο και στην Θρησκευτική και Ηθική Εγκυκλοπαίδεια, τόμ. 7, λήμμα "Καθαροί".
Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie. Μονταγιού: ένα οξιτανικό χωριό από το 1294 έως το 1324. Μετάφραση Εύα Καλπουρτζή, Νίκος Κούρκουλος - επίμετρο Εύα Καλπουρτζή. Αθήνα: Εκδόσεις του Εικοστού Πρώτου, 2008). Ωστόσο έχω έναν καλό λόγο για τους μεταφραστές, γιατί λένε: νεοτερικός.
Αμετάφραστο και στην Θρησκευτική και Ηθική Εγκυκλοπαίδεια, τόμ. 7, λήμμα "Καθαροί".
Στη σελ. 63 του Μονταγιού βρίσκουμε την εξής ΣτΜ:
"Στη γλώσσα της Καθολικής Εκκλησίας αιρετίκεμα (hereticatio) ονομάζεται το μυστήριο των Καθαρών consolamentum (παρηγορία ή παραμυθία), με το οποίο γινόταν κανείς Τέλειος. Στην τεχνική ορολογία της Ιεράς Εξέτασης, «αιρετικός» ονομάζεται μόνον ο Τέλειος, οι απλοί οπαδοί που δεν έχουν λάβει το consolamentum λέγονται «πιστοί (credentes) των αιρετικών» – γεγονός που δικαιολογεί την ονομασία hereticatio."
Από την άλλη, στη μετάφραση (με προβλήματα) του "Κίτρινου Σταυρού" του René Weiss έχει προτιμηθεί, αν θυμάμαι σωστά, η απόδοση "παραμυθία".
"Στη γλώσσα της Καθολικής Εκκλησίας αιρετίκεμα (hereticatio) ονομάζεται το μυστήριο των Καθαρών consolamentum (παρηγορία ή παραμυθία), με το οποίο γινόταν κανείς Τέλειος. Στην τεχνική ορολογία της Ιεράς Εξέτασης, «αιρετικός» ονομάζεται μόνον ο Τέλειος, οι απλοί οπαδοί που δεν έχουν λάβει το consolamentum λέγονται «πιστοί (credentes) των αιρετικών» – γεγονός που δικαιολογεί την ονομασία hereticatio."
Από την άλλη, στη μετάφραση (με προβλήματα) του "Κίτρινου Σταυρού" του René Weiss έχει προτιμηθεί, αν θυμάμαι σωστά, η απόδοση "παραμυθία".
Η ερμηνεία της παρηγορίας ή παραμυθίας είναι βέβαια βολική, αλλά φοβάμαι ότι δεν αποδίδει το πραγματικό νόημα του Consolamentum. Πιστεύω ότι η σημασία του τελευταίου σχετίζεται με μια δευτερεύουσα απόχρωσή του όρου, αυτή του comfort (συμπαράσταση ή εμψύχωση). Comforter είναι ο Παράκλητος, το Άγιο Πνεύμα, ο συνήγορος και εμψυχωτής μας και όχι ο παρηγορητής μας. Ο καθαρισμός ήταν κατά μία εκδοχή η θρησκεία του Αγίου Πνεύματος.
Βλ. Εδώ, σ. 127
Εδώ:
John 16:7, 8, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."
One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to comfort the believer. The word "comforter" means "one to run to our side and pick us up." This is what Jesus had done while He was on the earth. I John 2:1, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." The word "advocate" is the same word as "comforter" in John 16:7, 8. Hence, Jesus is our advocate, or comforter, or the one who runs to our side to pick us up. Especially was this true during His earthly life, but when He went back to Heaven, He sent us ANOTHER comforter. John 14:16, 17 and 26, "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." In a sense, the Holy Spirit came to be the babysitter for the Christians. Jesus was the One Who ran to our side; now He goes back to Heaven. He sends the Holy Spirit to do to all of us what He did when He was here.
It is interesting to note that the word "comforter" was also used for legal aid or the counsel for the defense; so the Holy Spirit is that. Jesus is our aid at the right hand of the Father; the Holy Spirit is our aid on earth. Jesus is a positions advocate in Heaven; the Holy Spirit is a conditional advocate on earth.
Someone has described it this way. God made a will. When Jesus died, it became valid to those who trust Him. He went to Heaven as our attorney at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit distributes that will for Jesus on earth.
Εδώ:
The Cathar scheme of salvation was essentially the same as the Paulician one. For them too, Jesus is Christ and Son of God by grace and faithful obedience. The fully intiated caste, the Parfaits, received the holy ghost becoming Christs just as Christ did at his baptism. Photius and Petrus Siculus confirm this. The Parfaits are presbyters who have been “consoled” and become a Paraclete in the flesh. Catholic critics said they were “self-conferred priests” and “calling themselves Christs”. The Cathar Perfects or Elect were each of them considered as Christs being filled with the holy spirit, and the ordinary Cathar “hearers” were ready to worship them as Christs. The Parfaits were Christs and they presented themselves in the form of a cross. Here is something in common with the Celtic saints who were regarded in the same way, the Christ in them being considered worthy of veneration. Adumnan, in his “Life of S Columba”, describes how “a humble man worshipped Christ in the holy man”.
They would stand in prayer with their arms outstretched in the form of a cross while the audience of “croyants” adored the Christ in them. They supposedly laid flat before them, but it is more likely they bowed with their head to the ground in Islamic style. It was precisely because the Cathars regarded Christ to be physically with them in the form of their holy caste of Perfects that they rejected images of Christ on the cross and symbols like the cross itself. Particularly, they hated the idea that Roman priests had that Christ was somehow confined in the cross, and could be taken around and shaken on to believers like a condiment.
The main rite, the consolamentum, was baptism with the spirit of the Paraclete or Comforter brought from God by Christ. This baptism of the spirit removed original sin, righted the effects of the Fall, prepared the soul for the return to heaven, and restored immortality. To be one of the consoled was already to be an angel, waiting temporarily in the flesh for its return to heaven, and the beatific vision of Christ. It is plain to see why these people faced death as heretics, and witches burnt to death with such composure.
Εδώ:
The Consolamentum meant baptism with the spirit and through it the supplicant received the Holy Paraclete, the gift of the Holy Spirit in exactly the same way that Christ had received it at the time of his baptism. For the Cathars the water was not only unnecessary but tainted. This was more a symbolic baptism of fire after which the Parfait became a comforter and a preacher of the only true way to the resurrection they had received, in this life
Εδώ:
The true cult of the Cathars was the cult of the Holy Spirit, the divine Paraclete. That is to say, of the principle which enables the human spirit to attain the "real world," the invisible world, the world of pure light, "the permanent and unaltered city."
Και εδώ:
That the Spirit of God is with the followers of Jesus Christ, Christ has shown thus in the Gospel according to Saint John; "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him; but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you"
[...] you wish to receive the spritual baptism whereby the Holy Spirit is given in the Church of God with the Holy Prayer by the laying on of hands of the Good Men. Of this Baptism Our Lord Jesus Christ said in the Holy Gospel according to Saint Matthew ; "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit ; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world"
and in the Gospel of Saint Mark he said, "These signs shall follow them that believe ; in my name shall they cast out devils,they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover"
And in the Gospel of Saint Luke he said "Behold I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
And if you wish to receive this power you must keep all the commandments of Christ and the New Testament according to your ability.
Βλ. Εδώ, σ. 127
Εδώ:
John 16:7, 8, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."
One of the works of the Holy Spirit is to comfort the believer. The word "comforter" means "one to run to our side and pick us up." This is what Jesus had done while He was on the earth. I John 2:1, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." The word "advocate" is the same word as "comforter" in John 16:7, 8. Hence, Jesus is our advocate, or comforter, or the one who runs to our side to pick us up. Especially was this true during His earthly life, but when He went back to Heaven, He sent us ANOTHER comforter. John 14:16, 17 and 26, "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." In a sense, the Holy Spirit came to be the babysitter for the Christians. Jesus was the One Who ran to our side; now He goes back to Heaven. He sends the Holy Spirit to do to all of us what He did when He was here.
It is interesting to note that the word "comforter" was also used for legal aid or the counsel for the defense; so the Holy Spirit is that. Jesus is our aid at the right hand of the Father; the Holy Spirit is our aid on earth. Jesus is a positions advocate in Heaven; the Holy Spirit is a conditional advocate on earth.
Someone has described it this way. God made a will. When Jesus died, it became valid to those who trust Him. He went to Heaven as our attorney at the right hand of the Father. The Holy Spirit distributes that will for Jesus on earth.
Εδώ:
The Cathar scheme of salvation was essentially the same as the Paulician one. For them too, Jesus is Christ and Son of God by grace and faithful obedience. The fully intiated caste, the Parfaits, received the holy ghost becoming Christs just as Christ did at his baptism. Photius and Petrus Siculus confirm this. The Parfaits are presbyters who have been “consoled” and become a Paraclete in the flesh. Catholic critics said they were “self-conferred priests” and “calling themselves Christs”. The Cathar Perfects or Elect were each of them considered as Christs being filled with the holy spirit, and the ordinary Cathar “hearers” were ready to worship them as Christs. The Parfaits were Christs and they presented themselves in the form of a cross. Here is something in common with the Celtic saints who were regarded in the same way, the Christ in them being considered worthy of veneration. Adumnan, in his “Life of S Columba”, describes how “a humble man worshipped Christ in the holy man”.
They would stand in prayer with their arms outstretched in the form of a cross while the audience of “croyants” adored the Christ in them. They supposedly laid flat before them, but it is more likely they bowed with their head to the ground in Islamic style. It was precisely because the Cathars regarded Christ to be physically with them in the form of their holy caste of Perfects that they rejected images of Christ on the cross and symbols like the cross itself. Particularly, they hated the idea that Roman priests had that Christ was somehow confined in the cross, and could be taken around and shaken on to believers like a condiment.
The main rite, the consolamentum, was baptism with the spirit of the Paraclete or Comforter brought from God by Christ. This baptism of the spirit removed original sin, righted the effects of the Fall, prepared the soul for the return to heaven, and restored immortality. To be one of the consoled was already to be an angel, waiting temporarily in the flesh for its return to heaven, and the beatific vision of Christ. It is plain to see why these people faced death as heretics, and witches burnt to death with such composure.
Εδώ:
The Consolamentum meant baptism with the spirit and through it the supplicant received the Holy Paraclete, the gift of the Holy Spirit in exactly the same way that Christ had received it at the time of his baptism. For the Cathars the water was not only unnecessary but tainted. This was more a symbolic baptism of fire after which the Parfait became a comforter and a preacher of the only true way to the resurrection they had received, in this life
Εδώ:
The true cult of the Cathars was the cult of the Holy Spirit, the divine Paraclete. That is to say, of the principle which enables the human spirit to attain the "real world," the invisible world, the world of pure light, "the permanent and unaltered city."
Και εδώ:
That the Spirit of God is with the followers of Jesus Christ, Christ has shown thus in the Gospel according to Saint John; "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him; but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you"
[...] you wish to receive the spritual baptism whereby the Holy Spirit is given in the Church of God with the Holy Prayer by the laying on of hands of the Good Men. Of this Baptism Our Lord Jesus Christ said in the Holy Gospel according to Saint Matthew ; "Go ye and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit ; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world"
and in the Gospel of Saint Mark he said, "These signs shall follow them that believe ; in my name shall they cast out devils,they shall speak with new tongues, they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover"
And in the Gospel of Saint Luke he said "Behold I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
And if you wish to receive this power you must keep all the commandments of Christ and the New Testament according to your ability.
Rogerios
¥
Είναι σαφές ότι όποια εκδοχή απόδοσης επιλέξουμε (είτε τις πιο παγιωμένες της "παρηγορίας" ή της "παραμυθίας", είτε τις δικές σου προτάσεις περί "εμψύχωσης"/ "συμπαράστασης") δεν πρόκειται να μεταφέρουμε επακριβώς τη σημασία του, κατά τους Καθαρούς, μυστηρίου (δηλ. την μετάβαση στην κατάσταση του Τέλειου). Πάντως, και ο λατινικός όρος είναι περισσότερο μια συμβατική (κωδική αν προτιμάτε) ονομασία της τελετής, με τα ίδια ακριβώς προβλήματα. Έτσι κι αλλιώς η πρώτη εμφάνιση του όρου στο κείμενό σου θα... ζητά από μόνη της επεξήγηση: αν δεν την έχει το ίδιο το προς μετάφραση κείμενο, τότε η υποσημείωση του μεταφραστή είναι η καταλληλότερη λύση, μια και δεν είναι όλοι οι αναγνώστες στοιχειωδώς μυημένοι στην Ιστορία των δυϊστικών θρησκειών/ αιρέσεων.
Παρεμπ., για ευνόητους λόγους δεν θα επέλεγα να αποδώσω το catharism/ catharisme ως "καθαρισμό", αλλά θα προτιμούσα τις περιφραστικές λύσεις (θρησκεία/ πίστη/ δόγμα των Καθαρών).
Παρεμπ., για ευνόητους λόγους δεν θα επέλεγα να αποδώσω το catharism/ catharisme ως "καθαρισμό", αλλά θα προτιμούσα τις περιφραστικές λύσεις (θρησκεία/ πίστη/ δόγμα των Καθαρών).
Φίλτατε unique, πραγματικά θα πρέπει να ξεπεράσεις αυτό το πρόβλημα να ψάχνεις κάτω από τους όρους, τι ακριβώς θέλει να πει ο καθένας, κι εκεί που περιμένει κανείς τη γλωσσική αντιστοιχία, να πετάς την ερμηνεία. Πρέπει να αντιληφθείς τη σημασία των συμβατικών και κωδικών ονομασιών που λέει κι ο Ρογήρος, γιατί αλλιώς, αν πέσεις σε συζήτηση ορολόγων, ή αυτοί θα βγουν αποκεί με ζουρλομανδύα ή εσύ. Αναζητούμε τις γλωσσικές αντιστοιχίες (παρηγορία, παραμυθία, άλλη δεν ξέρω να υπάρχει), εμπλουτίζουμε την ελληνική που θα διαλέξουμε με το νόημα της ξένης και πάμε παρακάτω. Αλλιώς θα τρίζει όλο το οικοδόμημα και δεν θα βρίσκουμε άκρη με τίποτα! Τα κουλουβάχατα της ορολογίας, που θα έλεγαν και οι Μόντι Πάιθον.
