παιδί του κομματικού σωλήνα = a product of the party machine / apparatus

[Palavra]

career politician = επαγγελματίας πολιτικός ή πολιτικός καριέρας

 

[cougr]

Ξέχασα να αναφέρω ότι σε μερικά μέρη της Αφρικής και της Ασίας χρησιμοποιούν τον όρο "test tube politician" αλλά δεν μπορώ να εξακριβώσω άν υπάρχει κάποια αντιστοιχία με την έννοια του όρου "παιδί του κομματικού σωλήνα". Πάντως, όπως και να 'χει, ούτε δόκιμος είναι ούτε κυκλοφορεί ευρέως.

@pontios
In a very narrow sense you could say that they are career politicians - given that the entirety of their employment has been within the political scene - but the two are separate concepts. One doesn't entirely capture the description or essence of the other.

 

[pontios]

It's a difficult and elusive concept to grasp, cougr.
You could make a case for "test-tube politician" as an aid to understanding the term, at least (I included this idea in my post #3), or"inbred" partisan/politician, perhaps.
So, someone who (perhaps) has been "bred" or "cloned"/"genetically imprinted" to serve their party and its interests (to keep it and themselves in power, first and foremost) - someone who lacks initiative and integrity (to honourably serve their country), and/or any autonomy.
It has negative connotations - this is one thing we can say for sure.

I think there is a crossover with career politician whenever career politician has this negativity attached to it (where it is viewed as self-serving, etc).

 

[cougr]

...to serve their party and its interests (to keep it and themselves in power, first and foremost) - someone who lacks initiative and integrity (to honourably serve their country), and/or any autonomy.

That just about defines all politicians, full stop.

 

[pontios]

"They have obviously fashioned their behavior, their entire approach, after certain role models whose footsteps they walk in, as the process of the “political test-tube baby” remains intact (and unrepentant, we would add)."

Political test-tube babies | eKathimerini.com

What traits do political officials of the new generation share? This was not the subject of a recent television debate on the name talks with the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), yet it went a long way toward answering the question.

www.ekathimerini.com

 

[pontios]

putting the test-tube/lab apparatus aside ...
political clone?
political clone of the party? political clone of the leader (or mentor)?

for example: political clone of the Democrat Party? political clone of President Barack Obama?
or just .... clone of the Democrat Party, Republican Party clone, clone of Barack Obama, a Barack Obama clone, etc...

the process of political cloning continues (whereas lexilogia welcomes free thinkers and new ideas).

 

[cougr]

That's πολιτικός/κομματικός κλώνος or κλώνος του τάδε.

Παρά το γεγονός ότι μπορεί να υπάρχει κάποια επικάλυψη μεταξύ των όρων, άλλο οι παραπάνω όροι και άλλο τα παιδιά του κομματικού σωλήνα.

 

[pontios]

In English, I think clone works just fine.
It is an elastic-enough term to encompass the concept (IMHO).

 

[Palavra]

Ξέχασα να αναφέρω ότι σε μερικά μέρη της Αφρικής και της Ασίας χρησιμοποιούν τον όρο "test tube politician" αλλά δεν μπορώ να εξακριβώσω άν υπάρχει κάποια αντιστοιχία με την έννοια του όρου "παιδί του κομματικού σωλήνα". Πάντως, όπως και να 'χει, ούτε δόκιμος είναι ούτε κυκλοφορεί ευρέως.

@pontios
In a very narrow sense you could say that they are career politicians - given that the entirety of their employment has been within the political scene - but the two are separate concepts. One doesn't entirely capture the description or essence of the other.

Ακριβώς. Παιδί του κομματικού σωλήνα είναι κάποιος που από μικρός ήταν στη νεολαία του κόμματος, πρωτοστατούσε σε μαθητικές και αργότερα φοιτητικές κινητοποιήσεις, μετά έβαλε υποψηφιότητα σε μικρής εμβέλειας εκλογές και μετά στις εθνικές. Επαγγελματίας πολιτικός είναι κάποιος που μπορεί να ήταν από μικρός σε κάποια νεολαία, μετά πήγε σε ένα μικρό κόμμα, μετά σε ένα μεγάλο, και μετά σε ένα άλλο μεγάλο, ασχέτως αν αυτά τα τρία κόμματα είχαν κάποια σχέση μεταξύ τους ή όχι.

 

[Palavra]

In English, I think clone works just fine.
It is an elastic-enough term to encompass the concept (IMHO).

Δεν ισχύει αυτό. Όπως εξηγεί ο cougr, πρόκειται για δύο διαφορετικές έννοιες που αποδίδονται διαφορετικά στα ελληνικά.

 

[pontios]

There is no term that encapsulates this very specific concept in English.
And, I note that Palavra used 100 words or so to describe what the term (this opaque term) means in Greek.
(Political test tube baby/politician brings up a small number of google search results from Pakistani and African sources).

So we may need to be more accommodating.

Put it this way...
The following term I just "hatched" up now in my head ... "a hatchling from the party incubator" would be closer to the concept.

I think "product of the party machine" doesn't and can't convey what this term means or is getting at.

cloning at least matches with the "fashioning of behaviour after certain role models," and following the footsteps of those in the past, etc...
The idea that you are getting more of the same, a party that is bereft of new ideas, staid in its ways, defending old ideas.

I think "cloning" does it better, and is more readily understood in English.

 

[cougr]

I think "product of the party machine" doesn't and can't convey what this term means or is getting at.

I think that's highly debatable.
The above term Is typically used to refer to a person who in the main, whilst still a youth, joined a political party at ground/ grassroots level and who worked their way through the ranks, having been securely employed by the party in some capacity or other until being elected or having nominated for election. They have negligible or no employment experience outside that of the party and having worked so long in the closed environment* and insular confines of the party, have in the process been enculturated in the norms, values and ideologies of the party. Hence, presumably, they lack the capacity to think independently and to relate or empathise with the needs and concerns of the average citizen who is required to eck out a living in the cut and thrust of the real world. Which, basically, in a nutshell, captures the basic gist of the term "παιδί του κομματικού σωλήνα". Being a clone doesn't quite capture all this and can have connotations far removed from those of the Greek term under discussion.

*that's the analogy to the test tube ie. the closed and controlled environment in which cell cultures are grown.

PS: I'm hoping this to be my last post on the topic. I think we've overstretched it a bit.

 

[Palavra]

I think "cloning" does it better, and is more readily understood in English.

It does not. Cougr perfectly explains the concept above. In my opinion, the term that we have in the title is the best there is.

 

[Severus]

ίσως: grown within the confines of party politics.

Party politics:
politics based on strict adherence to the policies and principles of a political party regardless of the public interest; partisan loyalism.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[pontios]

It does not. Cougr perfectly explains the concept above. In my opinion, the term that we have in the title is the best there is.

Is there an "unlike" button?
I actually agreed with that term in my post #3 ... what I was getting at is there might be another "more readily understood" way to express this.

Severus is trying to do just that ... and is using the term "party politics" I notice, which you'll see I've used way back in my post #3.

I only really started understanding the term from the Kathimerini article I posted, and I'm sure it helped cougr and others better understand the term, too.

So, we're all on the same side here, I hope - although, it doesn't always feel this way.

 

[Palavra]

So first you want to unlike my post and then you express a wish that we are all on the same side "although it doesn't always feel this way"?

This is not Facebook and most of us are professionals in the language industry. I believe we can all agree that we have already spent enough time trying to explain which options work and which do not. I think this is it for this thread.