leszekpaul
New member
Hallo, what is the meaning of the word απρόφταστος, in the poem of Kiki Dimoula :
Τις λεπτές κι όμορφες,
των παραθύρων ερωμένες,
αρπίστριες του αγναντέματος,
που τις επήρε απρόφταστες ο θάνατος
απρόφταστος
- Thread starter leszekpaul
- Start date
1a. get somewhere in time
b. catch up with someone/something
2a. act in time (to prevent an undesirable outcome)
b. arrive/occur before precautions are taken
3a. have the time to do/complete something
b. be old enough to have met someone or to have experienced something from the past
4a. [followed by negation] to express the pace at which things are succeeding each other
b. του το πρόφτασε: s/he was fast to tell him (something s/he shouldn't necessarily have told him)
undone might be a plausible rendition in your context...
cougr
¥
The term "απρόφταστος" could also refer to someone you:
can't catch up to
can't keep up with
can't reach in time (to offer help to or to save)
https://greek_greek.en-academic.com/23524/%CE%B1%CF%80%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%86%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82
But in the context of the poem to which the stanza in #1 derives from and as can be inferred from the post by m_a_a, I'm inclined to think that "απρόφταστες" = "εκείνες που δεν πρόφτασαν να...." where the rest of the narrative in relation to the expression is left to the readers imagination to fill. It could be that the "απρόφταστες" were those who were denied the chance to fulfill or partake in something in relation to their lives.
Ed: I couldn't get the link to work.
PS: Welcome to our forum leszekpaul!
can't catch up to
can't keep up with
can't reach in time (to offer help to or to save)
https://greek_greek.en-academic.com/23524/%CE%B1%CF%80%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%86%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82
But in the context of the poem to which the stanza in #1 derives from and as can be inferred from the post by m_a_a, I'm inclined to think that "απρόφταστες" = "εκείνες που δεν πρόφτασαν να...." where the rest of the narrative in relation to the expression is left to the readers imagination to fill. It could be that the "απρόφταστες" were those who were denied the chance to fulfill or partake in something in relation to their lives.
Ed: I couldn't get the link to work.
PS: Welcome to our forum leszekpaul!
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pontios
Well-known member
It's a very reasonable interpretation, referring to the life ahead of them being cut short/being left incomplete/left undone/unfulfilled, as ma_a_a_ also suggested. And I saw this as a valid interpretation, too.
But, there may be other interpretations.
There's a suddenness/unexpectedness' implied by "απρόφταστες" which could mean that these young women, metaphorically speaking, didn't have the opportunity to anticipate or prepare for their untimely demise (δεν πρόλαβαν/δεν προφτασαν, ήρθε ξαφνικά ο θάνατος - απροφταστες, δηλαδή, απο αυτην την άποψη)???
Let's think of all the possibilities, first (that's what I was trying to do, anyway) - then we can discount any unlikely ones.
But, there may be other interpretations.
There's a suddenness/unexpectedness' implied by "απρόφταστες" which could mean that these young women, metaphorically speaking, didn't have the opportunity to anticipate or prepare for their untimely demise (δεν πρόλαβαν/δεν προφτασαν, ήρθε ξαφνικά ο θάνατος - απροφταστες, δηλαδή, απο αυτην την άποψη)???
Let's think of all the possibilities, first (that's what I was trying to do, anyway) - then we can discount any unlikely ones.
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In other words, the question seems to be if we, upon an imaginary conversion of adjective (απρόφταστες) to verb (πρόφτασαν), should think of the "window mistresses" as the subject of the clause (δεν πρόφτασαν) or the object (δεν τις πρόφτασαν)...
If that's the spirit, it might be a good idea to recite the entire stanza:
Γράψε πως κλαίω για τις μητέρες.
Τις πιο παλιές μητέρες μου.
Τις λεπτές κι όμορφες,
των παραθύρων ερωμένες,
αρπίστριες του αγναντέματος,
που τις επήρε απρόφταστες ο θάνατος
κι αυτές μακροημερεύουν μητρικές
σε σαλονιού φωτογραφίες
και σε κεντήματα.
The poem is called Mαύρη Γραβάτα (Black Tie), and it seems to have been translated to English by Cecile Inglessis Margellos, whom some of us know for her Greek translation of Louis-Ferdinand Céline's Journey to the End of the Night... I've been digging through various databases for quite some time now, but haven't been able to locate the translation in question...
Well, then, I'll leave you to it
pontios
Well-known member
I'm wondering if there's yet another possibility? (please dig harder, m_a_a_ put your back into it).
Could απροφταστες imply πριν προλαβουμε να τις προφτασουμε,(νοερά) ... in turn implying the mysterious and elusive nature of the "window mistresses." (ειναι απιαστες/αφταστες)?
... να υποδηλώνει την αδυναμία μας να τις κατανοήσουμε πλήρως πριν από τον ξαφνικο τους θάνατο (ή και μετά);
απροφταστες = αφταστες ?
Could απροφταστες imply πριν προλαβουμε να τις προφτασουμε,(νοερά) ... in turn implying the mysterious and elusive nature of the "window mistresses." (ειναι απιαστες/αφταστες)?
... να υποδηλώνει την αδυναμία μας να τις κατανοήσουμε πλήρως πριν από τον ξαφνικο τους θάνατο (ή και μετά);
απροφταστες = αφταστες ?
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Τι σας έχω;
pontios with the home run!
Write that I weep over the mothers.
My oldest mothers.
The slim and fair ones
the window-lovers,
who play the harp of distance with their eyes,
whom death took unprepared,
who last through long maternal lives
in drawing-room photographs
and embroideries.
And it goes without saying, there's a forum...
cougr
¥
Αχ ρε Κική, δεν έγραφες "απροετοίμαστες" εξαρχής, να ξεμπερδεύαμε.