know better (than to do something)

[CoastalFog]

Morning boys and girls!
Here's a phrase that's been giving me a hard time depending on context. Apparently, it defies any one-size-fits-all translation. Any ideas on short renditions (i.e., short enough to use with subtitling)?

Pick any two of the following examples, or use your own. Ideally one for know better by itself, and one for know better than to do sth. Thx ;)


know better
to be too wise or well-taught (to do something). She should know better at her age!; He should have known better than to trust them.

know better (than to do something)
to be wise enough, experienced enough, or well trained enough not to have done something wrong.
Mary should have known better than to accept a lift from a stranger. Children should know better than to play in the road.

know better (than to do something)
to be wise enough, experienced enough, or well trained enough not to have done something wrong. Mary should have known better than to accept a lift from a stranger. Children should know better than to play in the road.

know better (than to do something)
1. to be wise enough to behave in a more responsible or acceptable way It was a stupid thing to do, and I thought she knew better.
You know better than to interrupt when someone else is talking.
Usage notes: sometimes used in the form not know any better: Doesn't she know any better than to wear jeans to a place like this?
2. to be wise enough to know that you should not believe someone or something
The guy who was trying to sell us the car said it was in great condition, but I knew better.


know better
Be able to recognize something as wrong or not possible, as in Mary should know better than to leave her child alone in the house, or Try to get in without a ticket? You know better than that. [c. 1700 ]

To know better "to have learned from experience" is from 1704

 

[AoratiMelani]

Πρώτο μου έρχεται το έχω συναίσθηση ότι. Μετά το μου κόβει (παραπάνω). Μετά το ξέρω ότι (δεν) πρέπει.
Και οπωσδήποτε αλλαγές στη σύνταξη.

Ξέρεις ότι δεν πρέπει να διακόπτεις όταν μιλάει κάποιος.

Στην ηλικία της πρέπει να έχει συναίσθηση ότι δεν εμπιστευόμαστε τον καθένα.

Ο τύπος με το αυτοκίνητο μας είπε ότι είναι σε άριστη κατάσταση, αλλά εμένα μου κόβει παραπάνω.

 

[Zazula]

Μερικές φορές ταιριάζει και το: «Θα 'πρεπε (ήδη) να ξέρεις».

 

[nickel]

Έφερα και «δικό μου» παράδειγμα:

He knows better than to ask me if I've had a nice day when I get home from work or whether the children have been good while he's been out. = Δεν κάνει το λάθος να με ρωτήσει…

Και προσθέτω άλλα δύο:

The 55-year-old veteran of the international scene knows better than to expect instant success.
Experienced political campaigners know better than to argue with a tough minded person like yourself.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/know-better-than?q=know+better

 

[CoastalFog]

Wow, you guys are good! Thank you much, everybody. Great renditions, I liked them all.

So far, I've only seen "θα'πρεπε να το ξέρει" like Zaz suggested, but didn't think (δε μού 'κοψε!) of using "κόβει" too. That's a cool one, Aorati Melani.
And, needless to say, Nickel's "δεν κάνω το λάθος" is another ingenious strategy.
I haven''t seen it on glosbe yet, and it's such a clever one!

Well, thanks for picking my brain, folks. In fact, after reading your posts, more options came to mind:
You know better than that
Αφού ξέρεις τώρα/ξέρεις καλά εσύ/αυτά τα ξέρεις

I know better than to trust him...
Σιγά που/αμ' δεν/σάματις τον εμπιστεύομαι,

...of all people!
...αυτόν πια/ειδικά!
Ι'd say this last one deserves a thread all its own, doesn't it?

Last but not least:
In negative statements: in the form not know any better:

Doesn't she know any better than to wear jeans to a place like this?
Kαλά δεν (το) ξέρει ότι (κανονικά) δε φοράνε/δεν έρχεσαι με τζιν εδώ πέρα;

 

[drsiebenmal]

Και διάφορα ασορτί «μυαλωμένα» μπορεί να ταιριάζουν, λιγότερο ή περισσότερο, ανάλογα με την περίπτωση π.χ.:

She should know better at her age!
Στα χρόνια της θα έπρεπε τουλάχιστον να έχει πήξει το μυαλό της!

He should have known better than to trust them.
Θα έπρεπε να έχει το μυαλό να μην μπλέξει μαζί τους/να μην τους εμπιστευτεί.

Mary should have known better than to accept a lift from a stranger.
Η Μαίρη θα έπρεπε να έχει το μυαλουδάκι να μην πηγαίνει τσάρκες με ξένους.

Children should know better than to play in the road.
Τα παιδιά πρέπει να έχουν στο μυαλό τους να μην παίζουν στον δρόμο.

κ.ο.κ.

 

[Themis†]

In negative statements: in the form not know any better:
Doesn't she know any better than to wear jeans to a place like this?
Kαλά δεν (το) ξέρει ότι (κανονικά) δε φοράνε/δεν έρχεσαι με τζιν εδώ πέρα;

Δεν καταλαβαίνει ότι...;

 

[CoastalFog]

Thx for the plethora of examples, Doc. Nice work!

Δεν καταλαβαίνει ότι...;

Spot on, Themis!
I was just thinking of something along those lines.

In fact, it's fair to say that translating know better than might actually work better by turning an affirmative sentence in English into a negative question in Greek, e.g.:

She should know better than that.
Καλά δεν (το) ξέρει/δεν καταλαβαίνει/δεν της κόβει;

 

[nickel]

She should know better than that.
Καλά δεν (το) ξέρει/δεν καταλαβαίνει/δεν της κόβει;

Υποθέτω ότι στον υποτιτλισμό, όταν βλέπεις κάποιον να λέει κάτι χωρίς το ρυθμό της ερώτησης, αποφεύγουμε να βάλουμε ερώτηση στον υπότιτλο.

Φίλοι υποτιτλιστές: Θα κάνατε το
She should know better than that.
Μα δεν της κόβει;

 

[Alexandra]

Μερικές φορές βάζουμε ερωτηματικό εκεί που δεν υπάρχει, και αντίστροφα, αλλά δεν μπορώ να πω ότι γίνεται πολύ συχνά.

 

[dominotheory]

She should know better than that.
Θα 'πρεπε να το 'ξερε / το 'χε καταλάβει / το 'χε υπόψη της.

Και όλα τα άλλα με το ότι:
Θα 'πρεπε να (το) 'ξερε / (το) 'χε καταλάβει / (το) 'χε υπόψη της ότι...

(ό,τι λένε κι οι προηγούμενοι δηλαδή)

 

[CoastalFog]

Υποθέτω ότι στον υποτιτλισμό, όταν βλέπεις κάποιον να λέει κάτι χωρίς το ρυθμό της ερώτησης, αποφεύγουμε να βάλουμε ερώτηση στον υπότιτλο.

Oh come on, Nickel, you should know better than to even suggest such a thing!
Μα δεν της κόβει;
Seriously now, is that a REAL question demanding an answer?

Ever heard of a rhetorical question?
For those who haven't:
1. (Rhetoric) a question to which no answer is required: used esp for dramatic effect.
An example is Who knows? (with the implication Nobody knows).

Alexandra's reply to Nickel's question:

Μερικές φορές βάζουμε ερωτηματικό εκεί που δεν υπάρχει, και αντίστροφα, αλλά δεν μπορώ να πω ότι γίνεται πολύ συχνά.

That's right. Here's a real-life subtitle translation I still remember since I was a kid (1960s)! It's from the classic TV series The Saint. One episode--don't remember which--concludes with the phrase:

Simon Templar: I wonder...
Greek subtitle: Ποιος ξέρει;

 

[nickel]

Oh come on, Nickel, you should know better than to even suggest such a thing!
Μα δεν της κόβει;
Seriously now, is that a REAL question demanding an answer?

Ever heard of a rhetorical question?

I'm referring to the intonation, which is something that even a non-native speaker can pick up.

I bet your intonation for rhetorical questions such as "Who knows / Ποιος ξέρει" is different from your intonation when you say "Μα δεν της κόβει;".

In any case, I was not dismissing the suggestion for a translation; I was trying to find out what subtitle translators do in cases like that.

 

[CoastalFog]

Yep, you've got a point there, Nickel. Thx.

Come to think of it, my suggestion fails in 2 more accounts:
1. The who knows? example is irrelevant to the know-better-than phrase and thus inapplicable.
2. Besides, if we're gonna use an EL-negative to render an EN-positive (a), we're left with no EL-negative to render its En-negative counterpart (b)!

Brain theory seizure? Totally!
Here is a practical explanation to alleviate any adverse effects of my theory:

(a)
ΕΝ-positive: She knows better than...
EL-negative: Δεν της κόβει να...;
(b)
EN-negative: Doesn't she know any better than...?
EL-negative: Oops, that's already been used for (a). What now?...

 

[drsiebenmal]

(b)
EN-negative: Doesn't she know any better than...?
EL-negative: Oops, that's already been used for (a). What now?...

Μα πραγματικά δεν της κόβει να...;