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Knowing him, he'd get away with blue murder!

How would this be neatly translated into Greek? Often the idiom is as Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable says of it:-
Blue murder. To shout blue murder.
Indicative of terror and alarm rather than real danger.
It appears to be a play on the French exclamation morbleu.

It is often used in the idiom 'screaming/yelling' blue murder' but it is not infrequently used as above viz. 'to get away with blue murder.'
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
About "blue murder", by Michael Quinion:

4. Questions and Answers: Blue murder

Q: From Evan Parry, New Zealand: I’ve checked your World Wide Words dictionary, but the expression blue murder doesn’t appear. A friend remarked about his child when she was restrained in a supermarket, she screamed blue murder. I know its meaning, but why blue, and why murder?

A: This idiom is largely restricted to Commonwealth countries. North Americans prefer to cry bloody murder, which is more expressive and easier to understand. Either way, it means to make a noisy and extravagant protest.

As long as the bite does not come in the form of double-digit inflation, it’s all sweetness. Cross that mark, and they’re all screaming blue murder. The middle-class loves a free lunch, subsidised healthcare and education.
The Hindustan Times, 6 Aug. 2011.

Using colours as metaphors for emotion is probably as old as human language, though they’re deeply determined by culture. In English we have phrases such as white with rage, green with jealousy, see red, yellow streak and tickled pink. The emotional associations of blue are more varied than those of most colours. It has among others indicated constancy (true blue), strained with effort or emotion (blue in the face), indecent or obscene (blue movie) and fear or depression (as in blue funk, which in the UK means to be in a state of fear but in the US to be depressed).

In an old entry, the Oxford English Dictionary puts blue murder in a section that links it with hurtful things, particularly plagues or pestilences, which may come from an old superstition about candles burning blue as an omen of death. But it seems just as likely that it derives from the same sense as that in the English version of blue funk, which dates from much the same period — the early part of the nineteenth century.

Bloody murder in its semi-literal sense is much older: it goes back at least to the sixteenth century:

There’s not a hollow cave or lurking-place,
No vast obscurity or misty vale,
Where bloody murder or detested rape
Can couch for fear but I will find them out.

Titus Andronicus, by William Shakespeare, c1591.

This sense was still the usual one in Britain in the period in which blue murder appeared and remained so afterwards. The figurative meaning of bloody murder is peculiarly American and began to appear in the 1860s, usually in the form yell bloody murder. There seems to be no direct link between the two phrases. In particular, blue murder doesn’t appear to be a euphemism for bloody murder.

This feline couplet is the earliest example I’ve so far found:

Till in the trap caught, by their tails both so taught,
Molrow and blue murder, they cried, sirs.

The Cats, An Original Comic Song, by Michael Hall, in The Melodist, and Mirthful Olio: an Elegant Collection of the Most Popular Songs &c., London, 1829. Taught is an old spelling of taut; molrow may be from miaow but is nearer in sense to caterwauling; one sense of the close relative molrowing is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as “the practice of socializing with a disreputable woman”.

The expression must have been fairly common by then, because it turns up in another song in the same collection.

The association with murder came about because our instinct on being faced with violent assault is to shout loudly in fear. Here’s a case where the link is made explicit:

He was quite naked at the time, and screamed out “Murder,” when the prisoner said, “I’ll give you blue murder,” at the same time striking him repeatedly over the back, shoulders, and arms, until the handle of the whip broke in two.

Morning Chronicle (London), 9 Jan. 1855.

However, most shouts of blue murder have been about more trivial matters and the expression has become a disapproving comment that points up the disparity between the amount of noise and the petty nature of the protest: “anyone would think you were being murdered, the noise you were making”.


For a neat rendering in Greek, I'll stop trying for now before I become blue in the face, and I'm too yellow to suggest anything yet.
 

Palavra

Mod Almighty
Staff member
I did not find this phrase in any dictionaries I looked in as such; reading Daeman's post, I think that it may be a combination of "get away with murder" and "cry blue murder", i.e. raise hell.

cry blue murder: Informal to make an outcry
get away with murder: Informal to escape censure; do as one pleases
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/get+away+with+blue+murder

Therefore, I believe it is synonymous with "get away with murder", so I'd say «αυτός είναι ικανός για όλα», i.e. he's capable of anything, because I'm incapable of thinking anything else right now :)
 

nickel

Administrator
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Να τα βλέπουμε σαν δύο (τουλάχιστον) ξεχωριστούς ιδιωματισμούς. Δηλαδή:
scream (or yell) blue (or North American bloody) murder
informal make an extravagant and noisy protest: if it gets into the papers, she’ll be down here screaming blue murder.

Ίσως: κάνω μεγάλη φασαρία
σηκώνω τον κόσμο στο πόδι


get away with (blue) murder
informal succeed in doing whatever one chooses without being punished or suffering any disadvantage:some local authorities are letting estate agents get away with murder

κάνω του κεφαλιού μου
κάνω ό,τι μου καπνίσει


Στο παράδειγμα του τίτλου (που είναι κακή αγγλική σύνταξη: ποιο είναι το υποκείμενο του knowing;):
Συμφωνώ με το: είναι ικανός για όλα
Επίσης ένα λόγιο: δεν ορρωδεί προ ουδενός.
Έχω κι άλλα για αργότερα.
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Κι εμένα ο συνδυασμός με μπερδεύει. Αν ήταν σκέτο το ένα ή το άλλο, μπορεί κάτι να είχα σκεφτεί μέχρι τώρα, κι ας ήταν για μαγιά, όχι neat, yeast.

Το μόνο που σκέφτομαι σχετικό με τον συνδυασμό είναι το «λύκοι στα πρόβατα» (the boy who cried wolf, Theseus, but at first when he got away with it, before the locals got wind of his lies).
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Για το scream blue murder: σκούζω λες και με σφάζουνε. :scared: :cry:
 
'Dodgy' syntax of 'knowing him'.

It is in fact used commonly both in speech and literature and is known as the nominativus pendens. it is not unusual in Latin and there is a number of examples in A.C. Moorhouse's Syntax of Sophocles p.21. It seems to be a form of anacolouthon.
What would the Greek be for 'knowing him' in the title. Thanks to all for their help.
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
For knowing him, a simple ξέροντάς τον or επειδή τον ξέρω (καλά) would suffice but - knowing what comes after in this case (assuming trickery in yelling blue murder) and depending on the context and tone - perhaps I would be more playful and say ξέροντας τι κουμάσι είναι.
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
And joining the pieces together, if I understand correctly the meaning of the whole sentence, i.e. someone is so wily that he could even trigger a false alarm and get away with it:
Ξέροντας τι κουμάσι είναι, τον έχω ικανό να σκούζει λες και τον σφάζουνε και όμως να γίνει πιστευτός.
 

nickel

Administrator
Staff member
Μα γιατί επιμένεις να τον βάζεις να σκούζει; Ποια πρόταση είναι αυτή που έχει και τις δύο εκφράσεις; Του τίτλου η πρόταση δεν έχει καμιά σχέση με το scream blue murder.
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Γιατί νομίζω πως το blue murder αυτή τη σημασία έχει, του unjustifiable outcry και του false alarm, να ξεσηκώνεις τον κόσμο για ψύλλου πήδημα, άσχετα αν συνοδεύεται από scream ή yell.
 

nickel

Administrator
Staff member
Το get away with blue murder δεν έχει καμιά απολύτως διαφορά στη σημασία από το get away with murder, απλώς επηρεάζεται από το blue του άλλου ιδιωματισμού και το παίρνει κι αυτό βόλτα.


Για το knowing him, επίσης:
Αν δεν κάνω λάθος,...

Και ναι, είναι γνωστό λάθος, όσο και το between you and I.
 

nickel

Administrator
Staff member
Κάνει ό,τι γουστάρει και λογαριασμό δε δίνει.

(Τα βάζω σταγονηδόν γιατί αλλιώς θα τα ξεχάσω...)
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Το get away with blue murder δεν έχει καμιά απολύτως διαφορά στη σημασία από το get away with murder, απλώς επηρεάζεται από το blue του άλλου ιδιωματισμού και το παίρνει κι αυτό βόλτα.
[...]

Μα πες το ντε λίγο πιο νωρίς, που μ' έχει φάει κι εμένα αυτή η βόλτα που λες κι έχω μπλαβίσει απ' την προσπάθεια να το καταλάβω ολοσούμπιτο και να το αποδώσω κιόλας! :)


Για το scream blue murder τουλάχιστον, μπορώ να σκούζω, δάσκαλε;
 
Δεν θα μπορούσα να πω τίποτα αν δεν τα είχατε αναλύσει τόσο ωραία. Η εντύπωσή μου είναι πάντως ότι το blue προσθέτει ένα εμβόλιμο στοιχείο σαρκασμού ή έστω μια περιπαικτική διάθεση. Επειδή δεν έχουμε τα ευρύτερα συμφραζόμενα, αδυνατώ να προτείνω οτιδήποτε. Αν όμως έχω δίκιο βάσει του γενικότερου πνεύματος του κειμένου, η απόδοση θα έπρεπε να το δείχνει. Να περιέχει ένα λογοπαίγνιο, έναν χλευασμό. Δεν συμβάλλω πολύ στο πρόβλημα, αλλά ο συμφυρμός των δύο εκφράσεων θα επέβαλλε γενικότερη εκτίμηση των συμφραζομένων.
 

nickel

Administrator
Staff member
Του συγχωρείς τα πάντα.
Είναι ο τύπος που σε κάνει να του συγχωρείς τα πάντα.

(Εκεί εγώ...)
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
Κι από κοντά το τσιράκι, κολλημένο στην κυριολεξία, και την πολυλογία:

Τον έχω ικανό μέχρι και φόνο να κάνει και να τη γλιτώσει!
 

daeman

Administrator
Staff member
[...]A friend remarked about his child when she was restrained in a supermarket, she screamed blue murder. I know its meaning, but why blue, and why murder?
[...]
:twit:
Blue because the child was blue in the face with fake indignation*, and murder because most would consider it, fleetingly at least, in such a predicament. The father did, preemptively indeed, but it was too late.

Αυτό θα πει να σκούζεις για ψύλλου πήδημα, κι αιτία να 'ναι αλλουνού το πήδημα. :p

*And I'd wager he got away with it, too.


 
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