# Την άλλη μέρα πολύ πρωί ξεκινήσαμε



## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

I think I have managed to translate this extract from Ηλίας Βενέζης' Αιολική Γη. Here it is in full with only one or two queries about meaning or translation:

Tην άλλη μέρα πολύ πρωί ξεκινήσαμε. O ήλιος μόλις είχε βγει. O μπαρμπα-Iωσήφ πήγαινε πρώτος, με αργά βήματα, κοιτάζοντας χαμηλά τη γη, κι εμείς ακολουθούσαμε χαρούμενα. Συζητούσαμε τι δέντρο θα διαλέξει ο καθένας μας και κάναμε πολύ φασαρία. Tέλος συμφωνήσαμε. H Άρτεμη διάλεξε μια αγριελιά. Δεν ήξερε να πει γιατί, αλλά πολύ αγαπούσε τη βαθιά γαλήνη που ζει στον ελαιώνα, το ασημένιο φύλλωμα, τους *τυραννισμένους* [tortured/gnarled?] κορμούς. Eγώ διάλεξα μιαν αχλαδιά.
Φτάσαμε. O μπαρμπα-Iωσήφ απόθεσε καταγής το μάτσο τις βέργες που κουβαλούσε μαζί του, τα μπόλια. Δεν έβλεπε πια καλά, γι’ αυτό έψαυσε το άγριο δέντρο, τους κλάδους του, γυρεύοντας να βρει τον καλό τόπο. Oλοένα η έκφρασή του γινόταν πιο αυστηρή. Tα μάτια του δεν κοίταζαν πουθενά *πλάι *[sideways?], μήτε εμάς. Oλοένα έχαναν τη λάμψη τους, σα να έσβηναν· *όλη η ύπαρξή του έσβηνε, για να μείνει μόνη, πυκνή η ζωή της αφής.* [his entire existence was fading, so that all the life that was in his touch might remain alone and concentrated]. Όταν επιτέλους βρήκε το μέρος που ήθελε, σήκωσε τα μάτια του προς τον ήλιο. Έκαμε τον σταυρό του τρεις φορές, και τα χείλια του κάπως σάλεψαν ενώ ψιθύριζαν τη μυστική του δέηση.

Are there any other comments I might find useful? I liked this piece very much: it creates a wonderful atmosphere.
Are my attempts at translation passable? Thanks.:huh::blush:


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## pontios (Dec 4, 2016)

That's how I understood it too, more or less, Theseus.
That his (whole) being was given over to the sense of touch - it's as if he repurposed his existence, turned off all his other senses, to crank it (touch) up to its full potential. Dedicated/abandoned himself fully to touch.


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## drsiebenmal (Dec 4, 2016)

+1 pontios

However, I would also like to convey somehow this wonderful couple of _πυκνή + αφή_. It's not the simple, everyday _touch_; it's a super-sense; a dense, compact, rich [other ideas?] touch.


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## Lefki (Dec 4, 2016)

drsiebenmal said:


> However, I would also like to convey somehow this wonderful couple of _πυκνή + αφή_. It's not the simple, everyday _touch_; it's a super-sense; a dense, compact, rich [other ideas?] touch.



To me, _dense _here feels closer to _intense_, _heightened_, _avid_, or _(all-) consuming_ even.


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## pontios (Dec 4, 2016)

drsiebenmal said:


> +1 pontios
> 
> However, I would also like to convey somehow this wonderful couple of _πυκνή + αφή_. It's not the simple, everyday _touch_; it's a super-sense; a dense, compact, rich [other ideas?] touch.



I think what πυκνή η ζωή της αφής is alluding to here is - by attenuating all his other senses, eliminating extraneous thoughts and concentrating solely on touch - it means his sense of touch can come through dense and undiluted, livelier- so it packs much more of a punch, is more intensified/amplified. As Lefki posted above.
Theseus was on the money, summed it up very well with his translation - got it in one.


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## Earion (Dec 4, 2016)

Yes, Theseus, your translation renders with precision this powerful image.


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## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks to all. The whole sentence is a wonderful example of clarity and compression, very hard to translate but whose meaning is readily intelligible. Thanks for finding my translation more than passable. Earion, a translation into English I found says this:

His eyes looked straight ahead, not even giving us a glimpse. Little by little, life withdrew from from them, as if it had moved to his fingers.


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## rogne (Dec 4, 2016)

> ...his entire existence was fading, so that all the life that was in his touch might remain alone and concentrated.



Or maybe: _his entire existence was fading, so that there might remain, alone and concentrated [dense, all-consuming, etc.], the life of touch_.


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## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks for your rendering, Rogne. This sentence is an example of the precision great literature has. So much is said in so few words. Such inspired language is every bit as precise as the language of science. An article I read posed this question: what in, say, two thousand years time, would people judge our genius by? Our mathematics and science? No. They will be much more fascinated by our imagination, and our art, since what we know in mathematics and science now, will be elementary then. Because of Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Picasso, Da Vinci, Aristotle &, I might add Papadiamantis & Venezis & all the literary colossi of every age & clime, we will be the geniuses of the future, and they will still find them incredibly fascinating.
Since Bach, we have come a long way in maths and science. The science of Bach's time is 'elementary' today, Bach's music is not. I'm sure the future human beings will also be fascinated by the vast amount of art, culture, literature, history, and philosophy that will be left for them. They will preserve our important buildings and sell tickets to each other for letting them have a glance. 
Moreover,, whether some like it or not, the humanities touch us in places that science never can. Scientifically, we have somewhat worked out how to activate our pleasure centres in the brain, and yet most people would actually prefer to eat, watch a good film, or sing and dance instead of having dopamine injected into their limbic system. It is human and unbelievably stunning, awe-inspiring & incomprehensible.


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## rogne (Dec 4, 2016)

+1 for all of the above, Theseus!


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## daeman (Dec 4, 2016)

rogne said:


> +1 for all of the above, Theseus!



+1 from me! Ars longa.

Not underestimating the value of science, of course; nevertheless, the ground holds the roots, but the flower holds the beauty.

I think this snippet I've received today from Σπουδαστήριο Νέου Ελληνισμού* has something to do with all this:

«Άσε οι σοφοί να πνίγονται στα σκοτεινά βιβλία,
και μη θαρρείς ότι η μωρή σοφία τούς ωφελεί.
Τόσα ποτάμια χύνονται στη στείρα κι αιωνία
θάλασσα. ―Πες μου, το νερό το ’καναν πιο πολύ;»

Γλαύκος Αλιθέρσης, από το Λεξικό Νεοελληνικών Παραθεμάτων και Αφορισμών







Albrecht Dürer: The Little Owl (1506)

To know how the bird flies is great; to watch its flight is magic.

* That's a marvelous resource for you to get reading ideas, Theseus, and a great starting point for anyone interested in contemporary Greek language and literature.


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## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks so much, as usual, 'Mane. The above piece in its entirety I got from Σπουδαστήριο Νέου Ελληνισμού. And of course you're right about science. 
The Parthenon itself seems to have been built according to The Golden Ratio, later formulated by Euclid. And many beautiful or imposing buildings have maths & scientific principles. Musicians can analyse Bach or Vamvakaris or literary critics Shakespeare or Seferis but the inspiration, as real as the science or even more so, is, in the final analysis, elusive.

I loved your sentence:-'Not underestimating the value of science, of course; nevertheless, the ground holds the roots, but the flower holds the beauty.' Relevant to The Golden Ratio, clearly.
The little poem Is wonderfully succinct!

Does the last line mean 'Tell me, did they make the the water better more? 
«Άσε οι σοφοί να πνίγονται στα σκοτεινά βιβλία,
και μη θαρρείς ότι η μωρή σοφία τούς ωφελεί.
Τόσα ποτάμια χύνονται στη στείρα κι αιωνία
θάλασσα. ―Πες μου, το νερό το ’καναν πιο πολύ. 

Let wise men suffocate in dusty tomes--
Don't imagine their foolish wisdom is of any use to them.
So many rivers pour into the barren & eternal deep:
But tell me: did they make the water more?


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## daeman (Dec 4, 2016)

Theseus said:


> ...
> «Άσε οι σοφοί να πνίγονται στα σκοτεινά βιβλία,
> και μη θαρρείς ότι η μωρή σοφία τούς ωφελεί.
> Τόσα ποτάμια χύνονται στη στείρα κι αιωνία
> ...





​


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## daeman (Dec 4, 2016)

Theseus said:


> ...The Parthenon itself seems to have been built according to The Golden Ratio, later formulated by Euclid. And many beautiful or imposing buildings have maths & scientific principles. ...



Of course, we have a thread for that, too; with Nickel's golden ratio and the good doctor's order  : 

*Χρυσή τομή, χρυσός κανόνας και χρυσή μετριότητα*.




drsiebenmal said:


> Λίγη εικονογράφηση αρχείου ακόμη για το πρώτο χρυσό spin-off:
> _..._
> 
> 
> ...





daeman said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## daeman (Dec 4, 2016)

Theseus said:


> ... Musicians can analyse Bach or Vamvakaris or literary critics Shakespeare or Seferis but the inspiration, as real as the science or even more so, is, in the final analysis, elusive. ...



That's another chord of mine you've touched, Theseus, μια ευαίσθητη χορδή μου που άγγιξες:



daeman said:


> ... Όπως λέει ο Ψαραντώνης ...:
> 
> «*Η μουσική, παιδί μου, είναι χιλιόμετρα. Μην ακούς αυτούς που βάζουν κουκίδες στο χαρτί*».
> 
> ...


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## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

Does Η μουσική, παιδί μου, είναι χιλιόμετρα. Μην ακούς αυτούς που βάζουν κουκίδες στο χαρτί mean:- 'Music, my child, is mile upon mile. Don't listen to those who put dots on the map'.


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## daeman (Dec 4, 2016)

Theseus said:


> Does Η μουσική, παιδί μου, είναι χιλιόμετρα. Μην ακούς αυτούς που βάζουν κουκίδες στο χαρτί mean:- 'Music, my child, is mile upon mile. Don't listen to those who put dots on the map'.



Dots on music paper, musical notations. Meaning music is something you feel, you live it, not dots on a piece of paper.

*Όλη η ύπαρξή του έσβηνε, για να μείνει μόνη, πυκνή η ζωή της μουσικής. 

*If you'd see Psarantonis play live -really live, not as a chore or obligation- you'd feel it, too. As with any other true musician.

Miles and miles, miles ahead, Miles Ahead:






Καλή και άγια η θεωρία, αλλά η πράξη προέχει, και σε κατέχει.


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## Theseus (Dec 4, 2016)

Brilliant answer, D. Thanks.


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