# Ο Σάμι κι ο Βαγγέλης κτλ.



## Theseus (Mar 24, 2017)

An article I have quoted in another part of the forum, which, I'm told by Palavra is bad Greek to say the least, runs like this in a paragraph near the end. (Looking at the title--The Secret Real Truth--it is obvious now to me that it is from a very dubious source). See http://thesecretrealtruth.blogspot.com/2015/07/blog-post_360.html.
It was written in July 2015 & since I have started to read it, I may as well finish it.

..Στο άλλο κανάλι ο *Σάμι κι ο Βαγγέλης* ο τετραπέρατος.. *γεωγραφικά μιλώντας και νοητικώς *φυσικά… *εδώ κι αυτοί*.. σα να μη πέρασε μια μέρα, *με το δάχτυλο στη μούρη σου κουνηστό κι εθνοσωτήριον*, αλλά δεν πειράζει, μένεις Ευρώπη.

Ι don't understand what it is on about, despite the strange poor & clearly rambling style which I have tried to correct. At the risk of censure from my colleagues, I am asking for a summary of the contents & a translation of the obscure bits.;):down:


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## drsiebenmal (Mar 24, 2017)

Theseus said:


> ..Στο άλλο κανάλι ο *Σάμι κι ο Βαγγέλης* ο τετραπέρατος.. *γεωγραφικά μιλώντας και νοητικώς *φυσικά… *εδώ κι αυτοί*.. σα να μη πέρασε μια μέρα, *με το δάχτυλο στη μούρη σου κουνηστό κι εθνοσωτήριον*, αλλά δεν πειράζει, μένεις Ευρώπη.



On the other (TV) channel, 
Sami [ex PM Samaras, ND, predecessor of Tsipras] 
and Vangelis [Samaras' ex-Vice-PM Venizelos, aka "Benny", PASOK] 
the ultimate [the word τετραπέρατος translates as four times as clever, but here probably used to refer το Venizelos' adiposity - πέρας is also an "end" as clarified by the next words] 
-- speaking geographically [again a reference to Ven.'s adiposity] 
and mentally of course... [here the ellipsis is used to show that the writer does not think much of Ven.'s mental capacities] 
...here they are...
...as if no day has passed [as if nothing has changed politically]
...each pointing a finger in your face, moving it in a nation-saving-way
...but it's ok, you remain [stay] in Europe.


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## drsiebenmal (Mar 24, 2017)

Since we're now at the political section, I can now also add my opinion: This is a despicable and stupid article, proven wrong some days later, when Tsipras won the referendum and then conceded at negotiations things unheard of until then (like putting all state-owned assets in a 99-year-long fund under the direction of the foreign lenders).


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## Theseus (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks, so much, Dr. As I have said before, I am only interested in the linguistic content but put my query here as instructed. Moreover, I am indebted to these forums for everything that I know about Greece. I am at last gaining confidence in translating most Greek that I read & my appetite is omnivorous. My understanding of spoken Greek is slowly improving but practice in this aspect is necessarily limited.
Thank you too for your comments on the views expressed in this article. Because of Lexilogia, I now have enough good and reliable material to read about the current political situation in Greece. In any case, any article that comes from a so-called blog dubbed The Secret Real Source is suspect from the outset. It must also be said that I greatly respect your views and all those who take the trouble to answer my queries, however trivial they may appear. Thank you again. Your hunting out of the real reference of το φωτεινό ιπποδρόμιο was inspired.


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## drsiebenmal (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks for your kind words, Theseus.



Theseus said:


> At the risk of censure from my colleagues, I am asking for a summary of the contents & a translation of the obscure bits.



No linguistic questions are ever censored in Lexilogia (this means that any of the stupid theories circulating are mercilessly crushed -- at once). However, linguistic discussions with strong political flavor or fights are sometimes shifted to the "Politics" sections. It is true that in the Politics sections there are some things, like Nazi/Golden Dawn/etc. propaganda or scientifically extremely stupid views or obvious post-truth posts that are ridiculed or simply not tolerated.


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## SBE (Mar 24, 2017)

Needless to say, of course, Theseus, that we may be biased when it comes to political issues and viewpoints, so don't expect BBC-like neutrality. You will have to make up your own mind, based on what you are reading. 
And, from a linguistic point of view, we don't all understand every nuance of a text like the above, even though we are native speakers. For example, I would have had a hard time understanding how τετραπέρατος and γεωγραφικά fit in. The Dr explained it well and now I understand it, but were I to read the article you are citing, I would have most likely skipped it as "incomprehensible ramblings" or some reference to something I don't know, and I would have moved on. 

A word of caution about the Greek press and media in general: in another message people mentioned major newspapers and their political leanings. In addition to those there are other newspapers, magazines etc. and news sites, political blogs etc. whose purpose does not appear to be to inform but to propagandise. It is not always evident of course, but what I found they have in common is the tendency to oversimplify every argument into black and white, using derogatory speech about anyone who might have a different opinion, and the dissemination of what we have come to call fake news and conspiracy theories. So one has to be careful of those. Palavra mentioned in another discussion that one easy to spot trait of them is bad Greek with spelling mistakes, but that may not be the case in some of the glossier publications of the sort, and we do know now that at least some of the ones that were set up by well-known names etc. did so with the help of political parties (I am trying to be neutral here) for that specific aim. The result seems to be confusion. News coming from every angle, especially from small outlets that promise to tell you the truth that the others won't tell you etc etc. Of course this is not a problem exclusive to Greece, but because of the financial situation in Greece (and the general lack of education and critical thinking), it is a bigger problem in my opinion than say in the USA. 

The British press does not write much about Greece nowadays because it is not critical news, but there were a couple of articles in the Economist and the FT recently that I think were pretty accurate. 
In the meantime, one of the most telling investigative journalism pieces about Greece that I have read is this one. A shorter version appeared in the Guardian and was also picked up in the Greek press, so you will find a translation in Greek somewhere for your study. What I found most interesting in the piece was the interviews with various Greek and non-Greek officials who perform amazing linguistic contortions to avoid using the c-word (corruption) and talk about incompetence and mismanagement instead. Obviously because corruption is punishable by law, incompetence is not.


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## m_a_a_ (Mar 24, 2017)

Theseus said:


> (...) με το δάχτυλο στη μούρη σου κουνηστό κι εθνοσωτήριον (...)



Tricky trash...

_With a finger in your face, all jiggy and nation-salvaging..._

Actually, "κουν*ι*στό" is closer to "faggy", literally connoting movement (that's why I came to think of "jiggy") but chiefly used to describe someone or something that resembles a homosexual man, e.g. a certain walk...


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## drsiebenmal (Mar 24, 2017)

m_a_a_ said:


> Actually, "κουν*ι*στό" is closer to "faggy", literally connoting movement (that's why I came to think of "jiggy") but chiefly used to describe someone or something that resembles a homosexual man, e.g. a certain walk...



Not always, as for example the joking usage «κουνιστό» instead of «κινητό» for the mobile phone or for toys like a «κουνιστό αλογάκι» (where it is surely derived from «κούνια»).


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## m_a_a_ (Mar 24, 2017)

drsiebenmal said:


> Not always, as for example the joking usage «κουνιστό» instead of «κινητό» for the mobile phone or for toys like a «κουνιστό αλογάκι» (where it is surely derived from «κούνια»).



Not always, no.
I actually thought of mentioning "κουνιστή πολυθρόνα" myself.
But the "faggy/jiggy" sense certainly prevails.


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## Theseus (Mar 25, 2017)

Again all this information is greatly appreciated. A thousand thanks to SBE for her lengthy excursus on the Greek press & media --more essential material to give me an accurate picture of the situation in Greece & the link to an important piece of investigative journalism. I'm still trying to find the Greek translation. I appreciate the efforts all of you have made on my behalf. Sincere thanks. :)


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## SBE (Mar 26, 2017)

The English version of Kathimerini had excerpts, so presumably the Greek version will have them, too.


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