# Ουκ αν λάβοις παρά του μη έχοντος = You can't get blood from a stone



## nickel (Oct 8, 2011)

Πρώτα απ' όλα, να πω ότι, από τα ρήματα που κυκλοφορούν (_λάβεις, λάβης, λάβοις_), το σωστό είναι το *λάβοις*: *Ουκ αν λάβοις παρά του μη έχοντος.*

Βρίσκεται σε έναν από τους νεκρικούς διαλόγους του Λουκιανού, ανάμεσα στον Μένιππο και τον Χάροντα. Παρακάτω θα παραθέσω το πρωτότυπο και την αγγλική μετάφραση από το Gutenberg και, αν έχετε την καλοσύνη, διαλέξτε και μια καλή ελληνική μετάφραση (π.χ. από εδώ, εδώ ή εδώ).

Στην αγγλική μετάφραση που βρήκα έχει ένα απλό «I can't [pay], if I haven't got it».

Στο _Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs_: *You cannot get blood from a stone*.
Frequently used, as a resigned admission, to mean that it is hopeless to try extorting money, etc., from those who have none. Other unyielding or unlikely substances are sometimes substituted for _stone_; the _turnip_ version is frequent in North America.

Harde to likke hony out of a marbil stoon, For ther is nouthir licour nor moisture. [_c_ 1435 J. Lydgate _Minor Poems_ (EETS) 666]
There's no getting of bloud out of that wall. [1666 G. Torriano _Italian Proverbs_ 161]
There's no getting blood out of a turnip. [1836 Marryat _Japhet_ iv.]
Blood cannot be obtained from a stone, neither can anything on account be obtained‥from Mr. Micawber. [1850 Dickens _David Copperfield_ xi.]
‘You'll never get it. ‥’ ‘He'll have to pay me when he loses!’ ‘You can't get blood out of a stone.’ [1925 J. S. Fletcher _False Scent_ ix.]
‘“You can't get blood from a stone,” Nick was saying. They were both really ripping. You could tell.’ [2001 K. Hall page _Body in Moonlight_ vii. 120]
In Dr Eckener's time you couldn't get blood from a turnip, and you couldn't get helium from any place but the United States of America. [2002 _London Review of Books_ 3 Jan. 5]
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## nickel (Oct 8, 2011)

Το πρωτότυπο του Λουκιανού, από τους _Νεκρικούς Διαλόγους_ (_Dialogi Mortuorum, Dialogues of the Dead_):

{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Ἀπόδος, ὦ κατάρατε, τὰ πορθμεῖα. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Βόα, εἰ τοῦτό σοι, ὦ Χάρων, ἥδιον. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Ἀπόδος, φημί, ἀνθ' ὧν σε διεπορθμεύσαμεν. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Οὐκ ἂν λάβοις παρὰ τοῦ μὴ ἔχοντος. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Ἔστι δέ τις ὀβολὸν μὴ ἔχων; 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Εἰ μὲν καὶ ἄλλος τις οὐκ οἶδα, ἐγὼ δ' οὐκ ἔχω. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Καὶ μὴν ἄγξω σε νὴ τὸν Πλούτωνα, ὦ μιαρέ, ἢν μὴ ἀποδῷς. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Κἀγὼ τῷ ξύλῳ σου πατάξας διαλύσω τὸ κρανίον. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Μάτην οὖν ἔσῃ πεπλευκὼς τοσοῦτον πλοῦν. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Ὁ Ἑρμῆς ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ σοι ἀποδότω, ὅς με παρέδωκέ σοι. 
{ΕΡΜΗΣ} Νὴ Δί' ὀναίμην γε, εἰ μέλλω καὶ ὑπερεκτίνειν τῶν νεκρῶν. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Οὐκ ἀποστήσομαί σου. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Τούτου γε ἕνεκα νεωλκήσας τὸ πορθμεῖον παράμενε· πλὴν ἀλλ' ὅ γε μὴ ἔχω, πῶς ἂν λάβοις; 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Σὺ δ' οὐκ ᾔδεις κομίζειν δέον; 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Ἤιδειν μέν, οὐκ εἶχον δέ. τί οὖν; ἐχρῆν διὰ τοῦτο μὴ ἀποθανεῖν; 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Μόνος οὖν αὐχήσεις προῖκα πεπλευκέναι; 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Οὐ προῖκα, ὦ βέλτιστε· καὶ γὰρ ἤντλησα καὶ τῆς κώπης συνεπελαβόμην καὶ οὐκ ἔκλαον μόνος τῶν ἄλλων ἐπιβατῶν. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Οὐδὲν ταῦτα πρὸς πορθμέα· τὸν ὀβολὸν ἀποδοῦναί σε δεῖ· οὐ θέμις ἄλλως γενέσθαι. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Οὐκοῦν ἄπαγέ με αὖθις ἐς τὸν βίον. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Χάριεν λέγεις, ἵνα καὶ πληγὰς ἐπὶ τούτῳ παρὰ τοῦ Αἰακοῦ προσλάβω. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Μὴ ἐνόχλει οὖν. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Δεῖξον τί ἐν τῇ πήρᾳ ἔχεις. 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Θέρμους, εἰ θέλεις, καὶ τῆς Ἑκάτης τὸ δεῖπνον. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Πόθεν τοῦτον ἡμῖν, ὦ Ἑρμῆ, τὸν κύνα ἤγαγες; οἷα δὲ καὶ ἐλάλει παρὰ τὸν πλοῦν τῶν ἐπιβατῶν ἁπάντων καταγελῶν καὶ ἐπισκώπτων καὶ μόνος ᾄδων οἰμωζόντων ἐκείνων. 
{ΕΡΜΗΣ} Ἀγνοεῖς, ὦ Χάρων, ὅντινα ἄνδρα διεπόρθμευσας; ἐλεύθερον ἀκριβῶς· οὐδένος αὐτῷ μέλει. οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ Μένιππος. 
{ΧΑΡΩΝ} Καὶ μὴν ἄν σε λάβω ποτέ – 
{ΜΕΝΙΠΠΟΣ} Ἂν λάβῃς, ὦ βέλτιστε· δὶς δὲ οὐκ ἂν λάβοις.​


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## nickel (Oct 8, 2011)

Αγγλική μετάφραση από Gutenberg:

XXII
_Charon. Menippus. Hermes_
_Ch_. Your fare, you rascal.
_Me_. Bawl away, Charon, if it gives you any pleasure.
_Ch_. I brought you across: give me my fare.
_Me_. I can't, if I haven't got it.
_Ch_. And who is so poor that he has not got a penny?
_Me_. I for one; I don't know who else.
_Ch_. Pay: or, by Pluto, I'll strangle you.
_Me_. And I'll crack your skull with this stick.
_Ch_. So you are to come all that way for nothing?
_Me_. Let Hermes pay for me: he put me on board.
_Her_. I dare say! A fine time I shall have of it, if I am to pay for the shades.
_Ch_. I'm not going to let you off.
_Me_. You can haul up your ship and wait, for all I care. If I have not got the money, I can't pay you, can I?
_Ch_. You knew you ought to bring it?
_Me_. I knew that: but I hadn't got it. What would you have? I ought not to have died, I suppose?
_Ch_. So you are to have the distinction of being the only passenger that ever crossed gratis?
_Me_. Oh, come now: gratis! I took an oar, and I baled; and I didn't cry, which is more than can be said for any of the others.
_Ch_. That's neither here nor there. I must have my penny; it's only right.
_Me_. Well, you had better take me back again to life.
_Ch_. Yes, and get a thrashing from Aeacus for my pains! I like that.
_Me_. Well, don't bother me.
_Ch_. Let me see what you have got in that wallet.
_Me_. Beans: have some?—and a Hecate's supper.
_Ch_. Where did you pick up this Cynic, Hermes? The noise he made on the crossing, too! laughing and jeering at all the rest, and singing, when every one else was at his lamentations.
_Her_. Ah, Charon, you little know your passenger! Independence, every inch of him: he cares for no one. 'Tis Menippus.
_Ch_. Wait till I catch you—-
_Me_. Precisely; I'll wait—till you catch me again.​


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## daeman (Oct 8, 2011)

...
Σχετική φράση και παροιμία: Milking a dry udder gets you nothing but kicked off the milking stool.


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