# If she is old enough to bleed, she is old enough to breed



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2017)

This is a crude English proverb, often heard when teenage males talk among themselves. It refers to any girl past puberty. 
If she is old enough to bleed, she's old enough to seed/breed & there are many other equivalent expressions.
It is a phrase, indicating the age by which a girl is available for sex. "Old enough to bleed" of course refers to physical maturity. "Old enough to seed/breed" means that when she mensrtruates she can have children, but of course she can not have children unless she has sexual intercourse. 
Of course in many cultures, a girl is usually under the age of consent when she begins her period, so the result could be statutory rape. However, the female body begins menstruation earlier than the age of consent because perhaps many years ago, human beings did not live so long, so it was necessary for the survival of the species. 
There a similar expression in Turkish, but it is a much more offensive:-
"Sandalyeye oturunca ayağı yere değiyorsa, tamamdır" 
"When she sits on a chair, if her foot touches the ground, it's ok (to have sex)". Palavra kindly informed me of the expression ψηφίζει; "said jokingly among friends when someone is interested in or dating a younger person. In that case, this question ("Can s/he vote?") means that the object of one's affections is of age and since that applies, the subtext is "go ahead and date him/her". Are there similar Greek expressions?


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## daeman (Feb 22, 2017)

...





—Γιατί τον σκότωσε;
—Γιατί τον έπιασε στο ατελιέ του με μια γκόμενα.
—Τι είναι το «γκόμενα»;
—*Η *γκόμενα!
—Καλή ώρα, εσύ είσαι πολύ γκόμενα, να 'ούμ'.
—Εγώ 'μαι πολύ γκόμενα; Τι θα πει αυτό;
—Ότι έχεις όλα τα προσόντα να είσαι γκόμενα.
—Ώχου...
—Look... Στην Ελλάδα, όλες οι ώριμες σεξουαλικώς γυναίκες λέγονται γκόμενες. Οι ανώριμες είναι τα μανούλια. Κατάλαβες;
—Δεν καταλαβαίνω τίποτα!
—Μην τους ακούς. Οι Έλληνες είναι σεξουαλικά ανώριμοι. Γι' αυτό λένε όλες τις γυναίκες «γκόμενες».
—Γεια σου, ρε Σούλα, με τα κλαρίνα σου!


—Why did she kill him?
—She caught him in his study with a "gomena"...
—What's a "gomena"?
—It's a she!
—For instance, you're quite a "gomena".
—Am I? But what does that mean?
—That you have all the specifications of a gomena.
—Look... In Greece, all sexually matured women are gomenas. The immature ones are "manoulia". Got it?
—I don't understand anything!
—Don't listen to them. Greek men are sexually immature, that's why they call all women "gomenas".
—Go get them, Soula!


*Άρπα Colla* (1982) - Νίκος Περάκης
Δημήτρης Πουλικάκος, Rocky Taylor, Μίμης Χρυσομάλλης, Δέσποινα Παγιάνου, Νίκος Καλογερόπουλος


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## JimAdams (Feb 22, 2017)

Theseus, I've heard in Greek as well the turkish expression you are quoting, about the chair and the feet on the ground. I've also heard another one, in the same joking manner, which goes " στα τέσσερα, κι ας είν' και δεκατέσσερα". "στα τέσσερα / sta tessera" = doggy-style. Δεκατέσσερα / dekatessera = 14 (the age). A notion again to the age of the girl, with the phrase roughly translated as "take her in four (doggy-style), even if she's 14". I found the phrase in slang.gr, a bit altered, but the basic meaning is there. 


@Daeman, από τα αγαπημένα μου σημεία της Αρπακόλλας


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## daeman (Feb 22, 2017)

JimAdams said:


> @Daeman, από τα αγαπημένα μου σημεία της Αρπακόλλας



Όλη η ταινία ήταν εξαιρετική για τα δεδομένα μας, μια αποτύπωση της εποχής της και του χώρου με τον οποίο ασχολήθηκε (όπως και άλλες ταινίες του Περάκη) κι ένα γενικό σχόλιο σε αυτά που συζητάτε εκεί, από κάποιον που τα έζησε από μέσα, και στη Γερμανία που ήταν στην αρχή και στην Ελλάδα που ήρθε μετά, οπότε είχε και μέτρο σύγκρισης.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2017)

I'm digesting all this fascinating material. 'Man,you never cease to amaze me! Thanks for translating the dialogue to help me listen. Jim, what is the Greek version of the Turkish proverb I quoted above about the chair & the feet on the ground? I wonder if it is more memorable than the Turkish. Thanks for the other expression.


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## daeman (Feb 22, 2017)

Theseus said:


> ... Thanks for translating the dialogue to help me listen. ...



Didn't do that myself this time (although I've worked for Perakis in a small project, free of charge just because I liked it); I just transcribed the Greek and copied the on-screen English dialogue. Τα του Καίσαρος, τω Καίσαρι· τα του δαεμάνου, all over the place.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2017)

Thanks for the modesty, 'Man! Do you know the Greek equivalent of the Turkish expression?


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## daeman (Feb 22, 2017)

Theseus said:


> Do you know the Greek equivalent of the Turkish expression?


If I only could, yes, I would, I surely would. :-(


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## SBE (Feb 23, 2017)

I feel a bit ambivalent about these discussions. 
On one hand I can understand that they are of interest to someone studying the language (a lexicographer, for example). 
On the other hand I find the whole subject a bit offensive in the 21st century


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## Theseus (Feb 23, 2017)

Many apologies, SBE. I did ask a colleague in a private letter if I should ask about this expression since I had reservations. I was informed not to be afraid to ask the question. I find all aspects of language fascinating since I have worked with all sorts and conditions of men and encountered expressions of all kinds. I was interested to find out equivalents in Greek. Yes & lexicography is also an interest. One of the English words for the toilet which I find far too prissy for my liking is 'the loo'. I have, I think, found some possible origins in two high society literature, only going back to the 1940's. But this is off the current subject....


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## SBE (Feb 23, 2017)

No need to apologise, Theseus, it's me who is a bit prudish maybe.


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## Theseus (Feb 23, 2017)

Not at all, SBE. I always value your opinions. That's why I had reservations initially & asked advice, since I considered that anything potentially offensive to considerate colleagues like yourself should be handled carefully & sensitively. Thank you for your kindness & understanding.:)


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## Palavra (Feb 24, 2017)

Theseus said:


> Many apologies, SBE. I did ask a colleague in a private letter if I should ask about this expression since I had reservations. I was informed not to be afraid to ask the question.


Since I was the colleague in question (:)), I would like to add that I referred Theseus to the wisdom of the forum since I didn't know of an equivalent precisely because this is the 21st century and such things are too crude to be widely said. Moreover, it's quite useful for language learners to know the register of that which they are trying to translate, even if, to some people's ears (including my own) the phrase or term sounds like nails on a chalkboard. 

I remember an Italian friend of mine who didn't quite grasp the register of the various curse words he had been told, to such an extent that he thought that «μουνόπανο» (Note to Theseus: the equivalent of "cunt" when used to curse) was an acceptable synonym for "sanitary napkin" (and where a younger version of me was utterly shocked to hear him say in Greek that a female friend of his was trying to find if there were μουνόπανα for sale at the ship's shop :s )


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## Theseus (Feb 25, 2017)

I am afraid that, despite the century, these crudities still exist. A man that I know, when he is with his mates in the pub, is incredibly coarse. So are they. However, one day his wife came to see him in the pub after she'd done the shopping. His language to her couldn't have been more polite. His mates found it difficult to suppress their laughter & nearly choked on their drinks. 
What is interesting to observe is that some of the most repugnant crudity consists of simple words (as in the question I submitted) used in a different context. It is this that makes them offensive. Μουνόπανο is going to be vulgar anyhow because of its first element. Thanks, Παλαύρα.


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