# μητρός (?)



## Theseus (Aug 11, 2016)

I'm going through a Modern Greek course, following the Cortina method, which is very readable and has an extensive vocabulary. It is in some ways dated but refreshingly the student is never allowed to move away from the actual language. If anyone has a copy, there are samples on p. 103 of various modern Greek handwriting. I think a mistake has been made somewhere since the first three passages deal with the exact same material from the last sentence of the course chapter, whereas the fourth from which my question is derived has no key nor any help.
Here is the passage in Greek handwriting:-

Είναι παρά πολύ μέγας ο προορισμός της .....(to me a semi-illegible word, ending in -ός). Από αυτήν εξαρτώνται τα πάντα. Και ο χαρακτήρ μας και η αρμονία της οικογένειας και η ευημερία της κοινωνίας και η ακμή της χώρας.

The missing word looks to me to be definitely μητρός. Even though in the book the formation μητέρα with the genitive μητέρας is used regularly is it possible that in this excerpt of Modern Greek (where the accents & some forms are traditional and not demotic) that the author of the piece resorts to the archaic form of the word. It is a simple question to ask and the emphasis on the mother's role in Greece, and indeed in many other societies, is typical.


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## Lefki (Aug 11, 2016)

Found it online and it is definitely _μητρός_. The text is in a "light" form of katharevousa, with pre-1981 (polytonic) notation of accents and breathings. The value of this handwritten excerpt in the context of a Modern Greek course is, frankly, beyond me, but, as you say, it is a dated book. Kudos to you for deciphering the handwriting!


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## nickel (Aug 11, 2016)

Hi, Thes. I remember seeing one of the Cortina courses (in case there are different ones). I may have my copy somewhere among my books, as a matter of fact. What is obvious here is that it was produced using the karathevousa of the 1950s: _μητρός_, _χαρακτήρ_, probably also _οικογενείας_ (please confirm). What is just bad Greek is the phrase "πάρα πολύ μέγας". I agree with you this must be "μητρός", which is not an unusual choice for those days. Of course, a photo taken with a smartphone camera would be the easiest solution to this problem.

Oh well, just saw Lefki's reply.


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## Theseus (Aug 11, 2016)

I am ashamed to admit it, N. but I don't know how to download photographs to lexilogia! I realise that παρά πολύ means 'very much' & to say 'very much great' is the mark of ignorance. Thanks for your comment!


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## Lefki (Aug 11, 2016)

Theseus said:


> I realise that παρά πολύ means 'very much' & to say 'very much great' is the mark of ignorance. Thanks for your comment!



I'd say that the phrase "πάρα πολύ μέγας" is bad Greek because of a clash of registers (demotic vs non-demotic): "πάρα πολύ μεγάλος" or, say, "ιδιαζόντως μέγας" would be OK. The way I see it, it is not so much a question of parsing the Greek phrase and bringing together the (admittedly non-standard) English translation equivalents, but of incongruous forms.


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## nickel (Aug 11, 2016)

OK, I managed to find a copy as well. I'm attaching page 103. (And yes,it is _οικογενείας_.)


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## Theseus (Aug 11, 2016)

Thanks, N & L for the interest in my question. Despite all, I wish there were many more modern Greek courses which kept you in constant contact with the target language. By the way, I apologise for the two wrong accents in πάρα πολύ & οικογενείας. Both were my mistakes. What are your thoughts on modern Greek language courses? I get a little tired of brief dialogues & pages of explanation. Even so-called 'colloquial' Greek courses I find tedious for the same reason


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## SBE (Aug 11, 2016)

I'm only familiar with one modern greek course and had a brief look at some others, so not really an expert, but I found that most are about teaching potential tourists some basic tourist phrases, like asking the way to the station. In that respect they are no different than other language courses. I have not seen any courses at intermediate level, so I can't comment, but considering that people sitting the various language exams seem to be analysing excerpts from Kazantzakis etc, somewhere in between people are taught grammar annd vocabulary.


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## Lefki (Aug 11, 2016)

I have worked on the Rosetta Stone Greek Course and I can attest that it has a lot to recommend it. It was a long time ago, though, and I don't have first-hand experience with their new generation of products.

(If only I still had my complimentary copy, I'd be glad to mail it to you. Dang!)


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## Theseus (Aug 11, 2016)

That would have been really nice of you! I'll take the Cortina course to hospital for my hip replacement operation on Monday next. I might be offline for a few days till I come out of hospital.


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## AoratiMelani (Aug 12, 2016)

Hi Theseus, I hope your operation goes well. It will probably be over by the time you read this.


Lefki said:


> The value of this handwritten excerpt in the context of a Modern Greek course is, frankly, beyond me..


I'll second that.


nickel said:


> What is obvious here is that it was produced using the karathevousa of the 1950s: _μητρός_, _χαρακτήρ_, probably also _οικογενείας_ (please confirm). What is just bad Greek is the phrase "πάρα πολύ μέγας".





Lefki said:


> I'd say that the phrase "πάρα πολύ μέγας" is bad Greek because of a clash of registers (demotic vs non-demotic): "πάρα πολύ μεγάλος" or, say, "ιδιαζόντως μέγας" would be OK.


Exactly. 
Katharevousa plus bad Greek is not my idea of good material for a Modern Greek Language course.

My husband used the book _Τα νέα ελληνικά για ξένους_, written by the staff of the Modern Greek Language School of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki. According to him, it is a very good method, and he should know, for he is a (Spanish) language teacher himself.


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## Theseus (Aug 12, 2016)

Thanks for the good wishes and linguistic help, AoratiMelani. Can you tell me how the method of this book works? Is it all in Greek? Is there help for English students? Not that I would need much of the latter but it would be useful for me to know the sort of book I am buying and its layout.
Thanks also Lefki for commending the Rosetta Stone course. I am also looking into that.
In defence of the much criticised Cortina course, for me at any rate, I can correct katharevousa forms as I go along & check idioms & vocabulary as I go along, like ίδοûμε for δούμε κτλ.


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## AoratiMelani (Aug 12, 2016)

The book is all in Greek. It is rather like most foreign language methods are: each chapter begins with a dialogue, then you have a presentation of the grammar in the dialogue with various examples, then the vocabulary. It's simple really, it works best with a teacher, but at least it's more up-to-date than the one you have, as far as I can tell. I'll see if I can get around to scanning a couple of pages and uploading them here, so that you can get a better idea.


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## Theseus (Aug 12, 2016)

Brilliant, thanks again! Once I get into a course I can work pretty fast, particularly if I feel I'm at last getting somewhere. I found the book your husband recommended & have ordered a copy at a much reduced price than new.:)


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## AoratiMelani (Aug 25, 2016)

Since you have already ordered it, there is not much point in my scanning some pages, you will soon have the book itself to judge by. In fact, you probably have already received it by now. 

I can't help wondering, however, why you are looking for such a book. Judging by your posts, you already know quite a bit of Greek. I hope the book won't be too easy for you. If such is the case, you might want to try the book *Περισσότερα ελληνικά*, which is the next level to the one I mentioned before.


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## AoratiMelani (Sep 26, 2016)

Still offtopic, you might want to download a grammar book, *Βασική γραμματική της ελληνικής*, Αθήνα 2007, Ινστιτούτο Επεξεργασίας του Λόγου.


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## Theseus (Sep 26, 2016)

A very useful grammar & very full! Thanks.


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