# Έτσι κι έτσι και ξέρω 'γώ τι, να τη φιλήσω



## Theseus (Oct 6, 2016)

I'm reading the sections of Markos Vamvakaris's autobiography in Greek which Earion was very kind send me as a present, when I reached this sentence:

Και λέγαμε τέλος πάντων, έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω ’γω τι, να τη φιλήσω, κι ότι «θα σε πάρω να σε κάνω γυναίκα μου» και «πότε θα γίνει αυτή η δουλειά». ​ 
The translation is: 'We said all the sweet nothings, ‘Give us a kiss’, ‘I’ll marry you, you’ll be my wife’, and ‘When shall we tie the knot?’ 
I cannot work out how the Greek bears that meaning, particularly the έτσι κι έτσι και ξέρω ’γώ τι, να τη φιλήσω. Έτσι κι έτσι seems to mean sweet nothings but και ξέρω ’γώ τι, να seems conversational &i idiomatic, & leaves me puzzled. It is of interest to note that the Greek original seems to be padded out in the English translation or am I wrong?


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## daeman (Oct 6, 2016)

Theseus said:


> ... but *και ξέρω 'γώ τι*, να seems conversational &i idiomatic, & leaves me puzzled. ...



and whatnot

έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω γω τι > this and that and whatnot




Earion said:


> ... Και λέγαμε τέλος πάντων, έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω ’γω τι, να τη φιλήσω, κι ότι «θα σε πάρω να σε κάνω γυναίκα μου» και «πότε θα γίνει αυτή η δουλειά». ...



A word for word rendering would go something like: "And we were saying this and that and whatnot, I wanted to kiss her and told her ‘I’ll make you my wife’ and ‘When shall we do that?'"

So the English translation you have is well done, fleshing out all that a bit.


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## Theseus (Oct 6, 2016)

Thanks, Daeman. It sounded conversational. For 'whatnot' I had learnt κατιτί. Thanks for the literal translation. 'Sweet nothings' to me is words of affection exchanged by lovers, as in "Ned appeared to be whispering sweet nothings in her ear". The Greek seems to be less specific.


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## SBE (Oct 8, 2016)

"Και ξέρω γω τί" is one of those phases I think I use a lot in writing to mean all the words that may be applicable but I don't know, but the reader might know. Which is the definition of whatnot. 
In this case the narrator is being rather prudish, as would have been expected of a gentleman of his era, as evidenced, too, from the "τέλος πάντων" earlier in the sentence. Which prompts me to rewrite Daeman's literal translation as:
"So anyway, we were saying this and that and whatnot..."


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## Theseus (Oct 8, 2016)

Thanks, SBE. So να τη φιλήσω means literally 'let me kiss her/ I should kiss her'. To explain 'whatnot' Daeman adds 'I wanted' before 'to kiss her'. Part of the whatnot then includes kissing her. It is strange that the translator makes 'να τη φιλήσω'' direct speech, like 'θα σε πάρω' &c.


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## Earion (Oct 8, 2016)

Και λέγαμε τέλος πάντων, έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω ’γω τι, να τη φιλήσω, κι ότι «θα σε πάρω να σε κάνω γυναίκα μου» και «πότε θα γίνει αυτή η δουλειά».  

You want everything dissected on the anatomical table, Theseus.  All right, then.

What we have here are four very loosely connected snippets, expressed in a style entirely oral.

1. Και λέγαμε τέλος πάντων, έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω ’γω τι : “We said [we were saying] all the sweet nothings and whatnots”

2. να τη φιλήσω : An elliptical phrase. The whole meaning would be “I was tryning / asking to kiss her” [but she refused --a wise strategy for a young girl]

Then follow the customary exchanges of questions and promises. 

3. κι ότι «θα σε πάρω να σε κάνω γυναίκα μου» : and [I was promising] that ‘I’ll marry you, you’ll be my wife’

4. και «πότε θα γίνει αυτή η δουλειά»  : and [she kept asking me] ‘When shall we tie the knot?’ [literally: When shall be this business done?].


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## Theseus (Oct 8, 2016)

This is an excellent dissectio, Earion, & helps me to understand the elliptical construction in να τη φιλήσω. The colloquial style of this passage is very helpful--it's the way people speak, rather than the more polished literary style. The translation of the original is good but bits are added, for instance 'hair & everything' isn't in the Greek but it occurs in the translation &, as I said, this 'να τη φιλήσω' is translated into direct speech, with the other sentences that are in direct speech.


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## SBE (Oct 8, 2016)

When you see written speech like that read it out loud. If you were to hear someone say this phrase you would not pay that much attention to where the kissing came from and what tense etc it's in.
In normal speech there might have been a gap or a change in tone before the να τη φιλήσω, indicating a change in the narration.
Και λέγαμε τέλος πάντων, έτσι και έτσι και ξέρω ’γω τι [deep breath, maybe stopping to draw a smoke]
[exhaling the smoke] (για) να τη φιλήσω
[more smoking, maybe putting out a cigarette, so another pause]
[Λέγαμε] κι ότι «θα σε πάρω να σε κάνω γυναίκα μου» και «πότε θα γίνει αυτή η δουλειά»

Don't forget this is the interview of a man who was considered old at the time, who was also a heavy smoker and had average diction, if you hear him talk here you will notice all this:


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## Theseus (Oct 8, 2016)

Thanks, SBE. I liked the music of the clip, although I cannot claim to understand very much of what Markos O Megas says: one or two words are clear. Thanks also for the notes, which were excellent. In fact, I thought originally this thread, since I had a translation, was probably hardly worth submitting. The results prove the opposite. Earion's present was a gift indeed. ;)


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## daeman (Oct 8, 2016)

Theseus said:


> ... although I cannot claim to understand very much of what Markos O Megas says: one or two words are clear. ...



«Σαράντα ολόκληρα χρόνια πέρασαν από τότε που τραγούδησα για πρώτη φορά με το γλυκό μπουζούκι μου μπροστά σε χωνί φωνογράφου. Το θυμάμαι καλά, ήταν ο φωνόγραφος της ODEON. Και ήρθαν όμορφες εποχές, και ήρθαν άθλιες, που ο Μάρκος μπήκε παραπονούμενος στο περιθώριο. Εγώ όμως όλο κι έφτιαχνα στιχάκια και μουσικές. Έλεγα "Κάλλια, Μάρκο, να δύσεις όρθιος, ζωντανός, μ' ένα τραγούδι στο στόμα". Σήμερα, μετά από σαράντα χρόνια, με φώναξαν να τους δώσω τα τραγούδια μου τα ωραιότερα. Κι εγώ άκουσα το κάλεσμά τους. Ήταν σαν βάλσαμο στην πικραμένη και πονεμένη ψυχή του Μάρκου.»


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## Theseus (Oct 9, 2016)

Thanks so much, daeman! I didn't realise that you had posted me a transcript of the Markos clip. I have only had access to my iPad this morning, since we had visitors till late yesterday. I appreciate all the effort on my behalf. It is heartening to know that I could translate κάλλια, δύω & βάλσαμο without any recourse to the lexicon. I thought περιθώριο must mean something like 'sideline'.


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## Theseus (Oct 9, 2016)

Another query: Markos does not seem to call it χωνί φωτογράφου but something which to me sounds like κολοβάκι? Is it a mishearing on my part or a word I don't know?


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## SBE (Oct 9, 2016)

Theseus said:


> Another query: Markos does not seem to call it χωνί φωτογράφου but something which to me sounds like κολοβάκι? Is it a mishearing on my part or a word I don't know?



χωνί φω*ν*ογράφου, όχι φωτογράφου. 

I listened to the clip again while reading Daeman's transcript and I cannot hear what you are describing, Theseus, and it's 100% accurate, as expected. There is also nothing that sounds similar to what you are hearing.


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## Theseus (Oct 9, 2016)

*χωνί φωνογράφου*

Τhanks, SBE. I am not questioning Daeman's transcript, only that I can't hear this work clearly but it comes across to me as ending in -άκι. Thank you for checking that it is as Daeman transcribes it.
I think the trouble arises that I tend try & listen too closely to the sound of each word & thus mishear it instead of relaxing into the spoken word; often, when we speak our own language our words are not always pronounced very clearly, and we mentally supply the next word or phrase but, in another language, concentration on each word can lead to mishearing, where a native speaker has no such problems.  :up:


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## SBE (Oct 9, 2016)

I concentrated and I still couldn't hear anything like you describe. I also listened for background noise that might distort the sound.


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## Theseus (Oct 9, 2016)

I stand corrected. Thanks for your efforts on my behalf. They are much appreciated. The transcript was very, very useful. It is the sort of help I need orally. Thanks to all colleagues who have helped me & wii, I hope continue to do so. It is a weakness of mine that I have to get everything just so. But it works for me!:blush:


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