# παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες = a game of make-believe, (a game of) dress-up | kidding each other; playing (silly) games



## nickel (Apr 8, 2017)

Μια και η έκφραση ήρθε στην επικαιρότητα:

*παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες*
1. (στην παιδική γλώσσα) παιχνίδι χωρίς ειδικούς κανόνες, στο οποίο τα παιδιά παριστάνουν τις νοικοκυρές.
2. (ειρωνικά) κοροϊδευόμαστε, αντιμετωπίζουμε ένα θέμα επιπόλαια.
https://el.wiktionary.org/wiki/παίζουμε_τις_κουμπάρες

(Έκανα μια μικρή αλλαγή στη 2η σημασία.)


Για το παιχνίδι:

Dress-up is a game played mainly by children. It involves dressing up, usually to impersonate someone or something, like an animal or character in a fairy tale. The type of clothes they dress up in often resembles who they are trying to be, either adults' clothing or special play clothes designed specifically for dress-up like feather boas and jewelry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress-up

Ίσως στην αγγλική κουλτούρα η μεταμφίεση παίζει μεγαλύτερο ρόλο από την υποκριτική. Στα δικά μας φτωχικά μέσα ταιριάζει περισσότερο το *game of make-believe*.

Όσο για τη μεταφορική σημασία, let's stop kidding each other. Ας σταματήσουμε να παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες.


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## nickel (Apr 8, 2017)

Ανήκει και στα Best Music Legends... (Ούτε που το θυμόμουν!)


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## dharvatis (Apr 8, 2017)

Μήπως ξέρει κανείς πώς το μετέφρασε ο διερμηνέας του Τουσκ;


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## nickel (Apr 8, 2017)

dharvatis said:


> Μήπως ξέρει κανείς πώς το μετέφρασε ο διερμηνέας του Τουσκ;



Όχι, αλλά υποθέτω ότι σε αυτή την έκφραση αναφέρεται η παρακάτω παράγραφος από την αγγλική Καθημερινή:

“We will not tolerate *games being played *at the expense of the Greek people for much longer,” he said, adding that failure to arrive at an agreement in Malta on Friday would necessitate an attempt to reach a deal at a higher level, possibly an emergency summit of EU leaders.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/217466/...pras-suggests-eu-summit-as-bailout-talks-drag


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## pontios (Apr 9, 2017)

Δεν ξέρω αν ταιριάζουν εδώ και τα ακόλουθα. ....pantomime, masquerade, travesty;
Pantomime might be the closest (as it especially refers to children - but it might be too theatrical?).


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## nickel (Apr 9, 2017)

Στα Παραπολιτικά βρήκα μια περιγραφή τού πώς παίζονταν οι κουμπάρες, ίσως πριν κι από τα δικά μου χρόνια:

Τα κορίτσια έπαιρναν τα ρούχα των μαμάδων τους (κρυφά συνήθως) και ντύνονταν «μεγαλίστικα». Παρίσταναν τις «κυρίες», με τα ψηλοτάκουνα της μαμάς. Πολλές φορές, για να φτιάξουν ψηλά τακούνια, έπαιρναν καρούλια και τα έδεναν κάτω από τα παπούτσια τους.
Μάζευαν κομμάτια από σπασμένα πιάτα, προτιμώντας εκείνα με τα σχέδια και τα στόλιζαν πάνω σε σανίδες. Μαγείρευαν με τα αυτοσχέδια κουζινικά τους, κουτσομπόλευαν, τάιζαν τα… «μωρά τους», δηλαδή τις πάνινες κούκλες τους, έκαναν επισκέψεις η μια στην άλλη. «Καλημέρα, κυρά-κουμπάρα, τι νέα;» «Καλά, κυρα-κουμπάρα».
Όλα αυτά τα έπαιζαν σε «σπιτάκια» που διαμόρφωναν κατάλληλα με ξύλα, πέτρες και … μπόλικη φαντασία, στη μικρή αυλή του σπιτιού τους ή έξω στο δρόμο της γειτονιάς, που μοσχοβολούσε βασιλικό κι ασβέστη. 

Πηγή: http://www.parapolitika.gr/article/etsi-pezonte-ikoumpares-pouepistratefse-tsipras​
Στα χρόνια που θυμάμαι εγώ τα κοριτσάκια έπαιρναν κανένα σερβίτσιο του τσαγιού που τους είχαν κάνει δώρο και προσπαθούσαν να μιμηθούν τον τρόπο που οι μαμάδες και οι φιλενάδες των μαμάδων τους μαζεύονταν και λέγανε τα οικογενειακά τους και τα κουτσομπολιά τους. Τόσο αιμοβόρικα πράγματα...

Ίσως το pantomime στη μη θεατρική του σημασία να ταίριαζε λίγο. Όσο για το travesty, θα ταίριαζε στην πολιτική συζήτηση: *a travesty of negotiations*.


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## Theseus (Apr 9, 2017)

The commonest phrases heard at least in the UK are "playing mummies and daddies". Here a concerned mother asks a question:

 Hi! I have got a four year old girl and she has been *playing mummies and daddies* with another boy her age and has tried to breastfeed him! His mum has got a bit upset about this because he doesn't play those games with anyone else and she wants him to play cars etc. with the boys. Is this sort of behaviour normal? What should I be saying to my girl about trying to breastfeed the boy? - Help!.

Or, second, "playing grown-ups".http://www.holidayswithkids.com.au/FSK/__data/page/8587/1402913_648152228557048_955538111_o.jpg


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## Theseus (Apr 9, 2017)

And, having had time to think, in the political sphere I think I might say "playing a game of political charades" or "political posturing" perhaps.


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## dharvatis (Apr 9, 2017)

nickel said:


> Όχι, αλλά υποθέτω ότι σε αυτή την έκφραση αναφέρεται η παρακάτω παράγραφος από την αγγλική Καθημερινή:
> 
> “We will not tolerate *games being played *at the expense of the Greek people for much longer,” he said, adding that failure to arrive at an agreement in Malta on Friday would necessitate an attempt to reach a deal at a higher level, possibly an emergency summit of EU leaders.
> http://www.ekathimerini.com/217466/...pras-suggests-eu-summit-as-bailout-talks-drag



Μάλιστα, το λογικό και ασφαλές. Ευχαριστώ!


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## Palavra (Apr 9, 2017)

Theseus said:


> The commonest phrases heard at least in the UK are "playing mummies and daddies". Here a concerned mother asks a question:
> 
> Hi! I have got a four year old girl and she has been *playing mummies and daddies* with another boy her age and has tried to breastfeed him! His mum has got a bit upset about this because he doesn't play those games with anyone else and she wants him to play cars etc. with the boys. Is this sort of behaviour normal? What should I be saying to my girl about trying to breastfeed the boy? - Help!.
> 
> Or, second, "playing grown-ups".http://www.holidayswithkids.com.au/FSK/__data/page/8587/1402913_648152228557048_955538111_o.jpg



No, Theseus, this is παίζουν το γιατρό in Greek (play doctor).


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## Theseus (Apr 10, 2017)

'Playing doctors & nurses' is the phrase we use for παίζουν το γιατρό. 'Playing mummies & daddies/grown-ups' has a wider application. Of course, when used by 'adults' it has colloquially a sexual meaning but to children it may mean any pretend game that is a serious attempt to imitate what children observe their parents doing, including 'lying, evading, boozing, shouting in anger and falling apart' [a Guardian sub-headline].


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## pontios (Apr 10, 2017)

There's "play acting" too - we might not need to specify what exactly it is that we're engaging in?

We won't tolerate any more tomfoolery/antics/games/posturing/play-acting/faking/acting fake/make-believe/ farcical behaviour/clowning around/kidding around... it's time to get real/it's time for a reality check/it's time to grow up and start taking things seriously.


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## pontios (Apr 10, 2017)

pontios said:


> There's "play acting" too - we might not need to specify what exactly it is that we're engaging in?
> 
> We won't tolerate any more tomfoolery/antics/games/posturing/play-acting/faking/acting fake/make-believe/ farcical behaviour/clowning around/kidding around... it's time to get real/it's time for a reality check/it's time to grow up and start taking things seriously.



I could have thrown "childish or puerile" in there too ...... childish antics, childish games, puerile behaviour, juvenile/infantile behaviour etc...

Also...
"Party games" are for kids ... We will not tolerate party games being played at the expense of .....?


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## cougr (Apr 10, 2017)

There's another interpretation of the phrase I'm aware of and described here ( slang.gr).


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## nickel (Apr 10, 2017)

"Playing mummies and daddies" for the Greek version of "κουμπάρες" is probably inappropriate because boys do not usually participate in the game. This is strictly little girls pretending to be their mummies and their female friends.


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## pontios (Apr 10, 2017)

cougr said:


> There's another interpretation of the phrase I'm aware of and described here ( slang.gr).




I didn't know this about the Greek phrase specifically, but ...
There would be several layers and varying degrees of deception and fooling around/clowning around/pretence/ hoodwinking in all this (play-acting/make-believe, etc..) .. so I'm not surprised to see it extending to shenanigans/sexual dalliances?

I mean there are party games and then there are sex party games - which is just "fooling/clowning around" of a different variety (or horseplay of a different colour). 

... and I just saw nickel's post, above.


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## Theseus (Apr 10, 2017)

I too am aware of the slang meaning, cougr, but in this context what does μου την έχει δώσει mean in this context:-
- Η Μαρία πήγε στη Ρώμη με το αφεντικό της για «δουλειές». *Μου την έχει δώσει!*
- Μήπως είσαι παράξενος;
- Στο ίδιο δωμάτιο μένουν ρε μαλάκα, τι λες εσύ, το βράδυ να παίζουν τις κουμπάρες;
Does the phrase in bold mean 'she has got on my nerves?' or has it another meaning?


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## nickel (Apr 10, 2017)

Theseus said:


> *Μου την έχει δώσει!*



That has really annoyed me / put me out / and synonyms.


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## Theseus (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks, Nickel.


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## cougr (Apr 13, 2017)

Nickel, two things: Firstly, thanks for answering Theseus's query on my behalf:upz: otherwise he would've been waiting until now.
Secondly, just a suggestion, I feel that the expression "playing (silly, stupid) games" belongs in the title.


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## daeman (Apr 13, 2017)

cougr said:


> ...Secondly, just a suggestion, I feel that the expression "playing (silly, stupid) games" belongs in the title.



As the expression "playing silly games" does belong in the title, so does this tune along with its lyrics and the video belong in this thread:






Thank you for the tip, Cougr! Και γερμανιστί, Spiel ohne Grenzen στα μεταφρ-άσματα. 

Andre has a red flag, Chiang Ching's is blue
They all have hills to fly them on except for Lin Tai Yu
*Dressing up in costumes, playing silly games*
Hiding out in tree-tops shouting out rude names
Whistling tunes we hide in the dunes by the seaside
Whistling tunes we piss on the goons in the jungle
It's a knockout
If looks could kill, they probably will
In games without frontiers-war without tears

Hans plays with Lotte, Lotte plays with Jane
Jane plays with Willi, Willi is happy again
Suki plays with Leo, Sacha plays with Britt
Adolf builts a bonfire, Enrico plays with it
Whistling tunes we hid in the dunes by the seaside
Whistling tunes we're kissing baboons in the jungle
It's a knockout
If looks could kill, they probably will
In games without frontiers-war without tears

Jeux sans frontieres

Change the names as you see fit.


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## pontios (Apr 14, 2017)

At the risk of flogging a dead horse ... :)

playing (silly) games, I agree with - and "silliness" should be "front and centre" here - but I think it stops a little short of what Tsipras was implying, which is closer to "playing childish games" (IMHO). 

"Childish" connotes not only "silliness" ("silliness" is always there, of course), but also immaturity, selfishness - acting like a child - not taking a mature approach, not taking things seriously, throwing tantrums and pouting when you don't get your way, peevishness (irritability), puerility etc...

That's the way I see it, anyway. I'm sorry for labouring the point. 

childish
ADJECTIVE

1Of, like, or appropriate to a child.
‘childish enthusiasm’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1 Silly and *immature*.
‘a childish outburst’

I think ..
What Tsipras was saying, in a roundabout way is -- let's not treat the (upcoming) meeting as if it were a play ground and let's see to it that it doesn't become one.

A preemptive shot across the bow, perhaps - a warning to come to the meeting with the right attitude (bring your mature and adult selves to it). Selfish "children" are not only being silly, they don't cooperate - leave your toys behind when you come to the meeting. Δεν είναι παίξε γέλασε.


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## pontios (Apr 16, 2017)

I wish I had seen this before opening my trap ... I didn't realise it had to do with (as Tsipras sees it) the continual shifting of the goalposts and more absurd/unrealistic last-minute demands by creditors - this is not a game of make-believe (that we played as kids), it affects the future of a nation. Now I've got the context. I'm on the computer all day (weekdays) and I come to this site for a break and a diversion - to think about something else/give my mind a rest - when I should be going outside for some fresh air, instead (obviously).


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## nickel (Apr 16, 2017)

Επειδή κάποιος φίλος παραπονέθηκε που δεν βάλαμε κι αυτή την εκδοχή για το «δεν παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες», να τη βάλουμε:

*not a parlour game*

Έχουμε, βέβαια, πάει πια στο χώρο τού «δεν είναι παίξε-γέλασε».


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## pontios (Apr 17, 2017)

nickel said:


> Επειδή κάποιος φίλος παραπονέθηκε που δεν βάλαμε κι αυτή την εκδοχή για το «δεν παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες», να τη βάλουμε:
> 
> *not a parlour game*



As long as the genre of the game (parlour game, party game, etc..) is "fantasy", of course.

We're not (kids) playing a/some fantasy (or virtual reality or simulation or computer?) game, the future of a nation is being decided.
This is not some fantasy game we played as kids ...
("Computer game" would make it less traditional, of course).

We're not role-playing/play-acting on an imaginary stage (in "la la land"), the future of a nation is at stake.

I was also thinking of sideshow/diversion ...
We're not in some sideshow, we're not play-acting in some sideshow (this is not a sideshow)... with meaning 2, below.


Definition of sideshow
1
: a minor show offered in addition to a main exhibition (as of a circus)
2
: an incidental diversion or spectacle


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## Earion (Jan 12, 2021)

Κρατώ ως θετικό ότι η Τουρκία εκφράζει τη βούληση να ξεκινήσει η διαδικασία. *Όμως ίσως έχει έρθει η ώρα να σταματήσουμε να παίζουμε τις κουμπάρες* και να βρούμε μια ημερομηνία και να ξεκινήσουμε ουσιαστικά τις επαφές.
(Κυρ. Μητσοτάκης, Λισαβόνα, 11.1.2021)

Αναρωτιέμαι πώς θα ακούστηκε (μεταφράστηκε) στα τουρκικά.


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## sarant (Jan 12, 2021)

Και δική μου απορία είναι αυτό.


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## sarant (Jan 12, 2021)

Και δινω μια απάντηση στη δική μου (και οχι μόνο) απορία. Φαίνεται πως μεταφράστηκε κατά λέξη, όπως βλέπω εδώ με τη βοήθεια του Γκουγκλ Τρανζλέιτ (στο τελος παραπομπή σε δικό μου άρθρο, που παραπέμπει στη Λεξιλογία):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348998469302841349


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