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Thread: Help with a verse from Kavvadias

  1. #1
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
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    Help with a verse from Kavvadias

    In this verse by Federico Garcia Lorca (Kavvadias), I need some help:-

    Κάτω απ’ τον ήλιο αναγαλλιάζαν οι ελιές Beneath the sun the olives rejoiced
    Και φύτρωναν μικροί σταυροί στα περιβόλια and little crosses were growing in the garden
    Τις νύχτες στέρφες απόμεναν οι αγκαλιές During the sterile nights the embraces remained??
    Τότες που σ’ έφεραν κατσίβελε στη μπόλια Then when they brought you gipsies in their headbands??

  2. #2
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    Περιβόλια is plural

    Τις νύχτες οι αγκαλιές απόμεναν στέρφες

    τότε που σε έφεραν, εσένα τσιγγάνε, μέσα στη μπόλια (θα ήταν βρέφος; τον παρομοιάζει με βρέφος; )

  3. #3
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
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    Thanks, Sarant. So 'when they brought you, my gipsy, wrapped in a head scarf.' Isn't the head scarf typical of gypsies? Click image for larger version. 

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    Senior Member Neikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theseus View Post
    Isn't the head scarf typical of gypsies?
    Ακριβώς, Θησέα. Βέβαια παλιότερα όλες οι γυναίκες φορούσαν μπόλια, όχι μόνο οι τσιγγάνες. Όποια δεν φορούσε μπόλια, την λέγανε και αμπόλιαστη. Μπόλια θα μπορούσε να σημαίνει επίσης πετσέτα ή ποδιά, άλλα εδώ νομίζω ότι μια χαρά ταιριάζει το κεφαλομάντηλο.

    μπόλια
    η (Μ μπόλια)
    γυναικείο κάλυμμα τού κεφαλιού, μαντίλι, τσεμπέρι
    νεοελλ.
    1. προσόψιο, πετσέτα
    2. το επίπλοο τών ζώων που σφάζονται, αλλ. ξιγκιά, σκέπη, τσίπα
    μσν.
    ποδιά, ύφασμα που ζώνεται στη μέση.
    [ ΕΤΥΜΟΛ. < βεν. imbolia ]

  5. #5
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
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    Ένα μεγάλο ευχαριστώ, όπως πάντα, Νείκο. Όλο το ποίημα είναι αρκετά δύσκολο μα τώρα νομίζω πως γενικά το κατάλαβα.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
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    In the verse before this, δηλ.

    Του ταύρου ο Πικάσο ρουθούνιζε βαριά
    και στα κουβέλια τότε σάπιζε το μέλι
    τραβέρσο ανάποδο, πορεία προς το βοριά
    τράβα μπροστά, ξοπίσω εμείς και μη σε μέλει


    I have found a translation into English by Simon Darragh from the book 'Wireless Operator', which runs as follows:

    Picasso’s bull let out a snort;
    in the hives the honey all turned rotten.
    The course is against us—it’s set for the north.
    Full ahead—never mind that we’re forgotten.


    Surely Picasso is the subject? How then does 'the bull' fit in? Then the sentence makes little sense. I presume it refers to the picture of Guernica:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
    Administrator nickel's Avatar
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    A question that remains open:

    http://lexilogia.gr/forum/showthread...l=1#post172974

    The translator has given his own national rendering.
    Μένω ΕυρώπηΣύγκρουση ιδεών, όχι βία και μισαλλοδοξία: δεν οδηγούν πουθενά. (Λ. Κύρκος)Θα περάσει κι αυτό
    ΕΝΑ ΝΗΜΑ ΤΗΝ ΗΜΕΡΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΝΕΙ ΠΕΡΑ. Staying hungry, staying foolish. Το διαδίκτυο βλάπτει όταν δεν σκέφτεσαι.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
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    Εγώ δεν έχω καμιάν απορία και δεν καταλαβαίνω γιατί έχετε εσείς. Ο Πικάσσο είχε μανία με τον ταύρο, γιατί συμβόλιζε γι αυτόν πολλά και κατεξοχήν την αντρική σεξουαλικότητα μεταμορφωμένη σε κυριαρχική δύναμη. Ταύροι (και μινώταυροι) έρχονται και επανέρχονται στο έργο του. Πολύ σωστά ο ποιητής διέβλεψε την ταύτιση: δεν είναι πια «ο ταύρος του Πικάσσο», είναι «ο Πικάσσο του ταύρου».



    the animal stands for the symbol of virility. In several of his drawings and paintings the animal takes the form of a Minotaur, and perhaps this anthropomorphic representation additionally justifies explanations that link bulls to masculinity and male strength. The Minotaur is also connected with the artist himself, and the representation of his personality.


    Given Picasso always identified himself as the bull, one interpretation is him facing his impending death as a bull faces the matador.

    “Picasso said to me once: ‘Those horses, they’re the women in my life,’” said Richardson. “Throughout his life there was a thing of women being sacrificed to feed his art. His record with wives and mistresses and girlfriends is pretty rugged and a lot of women had to suffer for the sake of his art.”

    • Memory Holloway “Eroticism, myth and the bullfight: Picasso’s Femme Torero I and Corrida”. NGV Art Journal 22.

    He had aestheticised simple carnal love, dressing it up in a typical Spanish costume.


    … it is not just that Picasso kept returning to images of bulls, bullfighters, and bull-men, it is that the Minotaur, with all its monstrous hybridity, reveals something central about Picasso himself, about his entire oeuvre. It is a figure that speaks to almost everything he did, both in and out of the studio.


    Friedrich Nietzsche exclaimed of the ancient Greeks: “How much did these people have to suffer to become so beautiful!” In all history no culture has so passionately adored another culture as the West has idolized ancient Greece , not because Greek culture is filled with "mere truths" but because the Greeks, like Picasso, confronted by the chaos of history and the unconscious, moved toward a deepened awareness of life and a cultivation of that awareness.
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

  9. #9
    Administrator nickel's Avatar
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    Δεν με έπεισες. Ο «ταύρος του Πικάσο» είναι σαφέστατη αναφορά στον συγκεκριμένο ταύρο της Γκερνίκα. Και ρουθουνίζει. Το σχήμα «ο Πικάσο του ταύρου» παραμένει για μένα μια παραδοξολογία που δεν επιβάλλεται από το μέτρο, μια προκλητική «ποιητική αδεία» αντιμετάθεση, putting the cart before the horse — ή putting the artist before the bull.
    Μένω ΕυρώπηΣύγκρουση ιδεών, όχι βία και μισαλλοδοξία: δεν οδηγούν πουθενά. (Λ. Κύρκος)Θα περάσει κι αυτό
    ΕΝΑ ΝΗΜΑ ΤΗΝ ΗΜΕΡΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΝΕΙ ΠΕΡΑ. Staying hungry, staying foolish. Το διαδίκτυο βλάπτει όταν δεν σκέφτεσαι.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
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    On my walk this afternoon with the dog exactly the same thought occurred to me as to Hellegennes in the link that Nickel referred me to, which I've just read: I think Kavvadias means "the Picasso with the bull in it snorted heavily/violently", an obvious reference in this context specifically to Guernica, hence the above image. Lurking in the distant shadows is what theologians call the problem of evil. But what Earion writes is fascinating, nonetheless and supplies me with all sorts of details I never knew. I have thought that, whereas the horse signifies tamed instinct, the bull on the contrary is a symbol or untamed and raw instinct. However, Nickel's note deserves reflection and there is a clear distinction between "the bull of Picasso" and "the Picasso of the bull".

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