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Thread: The talaepory of koine logic

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    The talaepory of koine logic

    Είναι γνωστές οι δύο ομιλίες του καθηγητή Ξενοφώντα Ζολώτα σε δύο Συνόδους της Διεθνούς Τράπεζας Ανασυγκρότησης και Ανάπτυξης, στις οποίες χρησιμοποίησε λέξεις με ελληνική ρίζα. Αντιγράφω εδώ τις ομιλίες (που υπάρχουν και στην Wikipedia). Έχουν προκαλέσει θετικά και αρνητικά σχόλια που μπορούμε, αν θέλετε, να θυμηθούμε με τον τρόπο μας.

    Στις δύο αυτές ομιλίες μπορούμε τώρα να προσθέσουμε και το κείμενο του καθηγητή Νίκου Τάτσου που δημοσιεύτηκε στο Βήμα με τίτλο Τα δάνεια της αγγλικής γλώσσας.

    Ομιλία Ζολώτα 26/9/1957:
    I always wished to address this Assembly in Greek, but realized that it would have been indeed "Greek" to all present in this room. I found out, however, that I could make my address in Greek which would still be English to everybody. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, l shall do it now, using with the exception of articles and prepositions, only Greek words.

    Kyrie, I eulogize the archons of the Panethnic Numismatic Thesaurus and the Ecumenical Trapeza for the orthodoxy of their axioms, methods and policies, although there is an episode of cacophony of the Trapeza with Hellas. With enthusiasm we dialogue and synagonize at the synods of our didymous organizations in which polymorphous economic ideas and dogmas are analyzed and synthesized. Our critical problems such as the numismatic plethora generate some agony and melancholy. This phenomenon is characteristic of our epoch. But, to my thesis, we have the dynamism to program therapeutic practices as a prophylaxis from chaos and catastrophe. In parallel, a Panethnic unhypocritical economic synergy and harmonization in a democratic climate is basic. I apologize for my eccentric monologue. I emphasize my euharistia to you, Kyrie to the eugenic and generous American Ethnos and to the organizers and protagonists of his Amphictyony and the gastronomic symposia.

    Ομιλία Ζολώτα 2/10/1959:
    Kyrie, it is Zeus' anathema on our epoch for the dynamism of our economies and the heresy of our economic methods and policies that we should agonize the Scylla of numismatic plethora and the Charybdis of economic anaemia. It is not my idiosyncrasy to be ironic or sarcastic, but my diagnosis would be that politicians are rather cryptoplethorists. Although they emphatically stigmatize numismatic plethora, they energize it through their tactics and practices. Our policies have to be based more on economic and less on political criteria. Our gnomon has to be a metron between political, strategic and philanthropic scopes. Political magic has always been anti-economic. In an epoch characterized by monopolies, oligopolies, monopsonies, monopolistic antagonism and polymorphous inelasticities, our policies have to be more orthological. But this should not be metamorphosed into plethorophobia, which is endemic among academic economists. Numismatic symmetry should not hyper-antagonize economic acme. A greater harmonization between the practices of the economic and numismatic archons is basic. Parallel to this, we have to synchronize and harmonize more and more our economic and numismatic policies panethnically. These scopes are more practicable now, when the prognostics of the political and economic barometer are halcyonic. The history of our didymus organizations in this sphere has been didactic and their gnostic practices will always be a tonic to the polyonymous and idiomorphous ethnical economies. The genesis of the programmed organization will dynamize these policies. Therefore, I sympathize, although not without criticism on one or two themes, with the apostles and the hierarchy of our organs in their zeal to program orthodox economic and numismatic policies, although I have some logomachy with them. I apologize for having tyrannized you with my Hellenic phraseology. In my epilogue, I emphasize my eulogy to the philoxenous autochthons of this cosmopolitan metropolis and my encomium to you, Kyrie, and the stenographers.

    Ν. Τάτσος, Τα δάνεια της αγγλικής γλώσσας (12/10/2011):
    I eulogize this polyglot and plethoric synod of diplomats, politicians, academics, economists, ecologists, mathematicians, econometricians, demographers, technologists and other scholars and technocrats who are systematically and dynamically analyzing the economic, numismatic, ecological and energy phenomena, problems, episodes and arrhythmias of this planet and agonize for the anamorphosis of our economic and ecological systems.

    I emphasize in my prologue that I have no psychosis, rhetoric syndrome for demagogy or the scope to proselytize you with my homily to the Hellenic glossary. However, there is no amphibole that the Hellenic glossary is diachronic and ecumenical and that it has for eons stigmatized with its idiomorphic character and its plethora of lexis the history and the epistemology of this cosmos. It is neither a hypothesis nor hyperbolic to homologate that the synchronous polyglotism, its grammar and polymorphous dialects are based on lexis, synonyms, acronyms, symbols, metaphors, phraseology and glossary idioms and syntactic canons of the Hellenic glossa, its etymological thesaurus, its alphabet and its polytonic orthography. Thus, it is neither anacoluthon nor eccentric that the holon of my homily in this synod is in Hellenic . Though in such a trope that will still echo English to you.

    I

    Our epoch is characterized and stigmatized by the anarchy, anomaly, arrhythmia and atony of our asthenic economic system. However, all critical endogenous and exogenous parameters of the synthetic ecumenical economic architecture have been analyzed empirically and in bathos by our epistemologists and the anatomy of the episode and its etiology are not anymore agnostic, amphibological or anapodeictic. For, in our democratic systems there is no adytum and our icon for the genesis of the crisis has been well schematized now.

    To my thesis, the genesis of the economic crisis is not symptomatic. Furthermore, to my thesis the critical parameters of this genesis are basically ethical.

    Synoptically, I have the aesthesis that our adiaphanous economic systems characterized by monopolies, oligopolies, monopsonies and a plethora of other inelasticities and asymmetries, basically symbolize the philosophy of our plutocratic system and the ideology and idiosyncrasy of some of its strategic protagonists whose apathy, enigmatic and problematic logic, pathetic praxis and policies have no euesthesia for the ecumenical euphoria. Their economic axioms and methods and basically their economic bulimia have been catastrophic and chaotic.

    I emphasize my agony and melancholy for them for not analyzing the episodes, the periodicity and the didactics of the phenomena. Their egoism and apathy have stigmatized our epoch, they have traumatized the democratic climate and their unorthodox policies have generated a hemorrhage of our economic systems.

    Their chronic egomania and megalomania and their enigmatic and problematic logic is a pathetic phenomenon. They have no idealism, their dogmas and practices are often asymmetric and in antithesis to the pneuma and the axioms of our epoch and their egoism and apathy for the ecumenical euphoria generates phobia and panic.

    Though, it is not my scope to be hyper-categorical or to hyper-dramatize the phenomenon and it is not to my ethos and idiosyncrasy to anathematize the protagonists of the economic pandemonium either. In our democratic political systems there is always an exodus from the chaos and the crisis.

    It is crystal that the economic crisis is not yet epic and that for the anacrusis of the crisis, the catharsis and metamorphosis of the economic system and the anabiosis of the economic euphoria drastic (even draconian, but not barbaric) praxes are still basic. But, they must be logical and pragmatic and our gnomon has to be a synthesis of political, economic and ecological scopes, together with philanthropic criteria. Hence, it is critical to emphasize that those prognosis techniques, diagnosis and therapeutic methodologies that are based on econometric models and other mathematical techniques are not a panacea for the anomalies of our epoch.

    The scope of our policy must be to organize a dynamic dialogue on the therapy of the economic system and not parallel monologues with stereotypes. For, with synergies, academic gnosis, epistemological methods and dialogue we can analyze and synthesize the plethora of economic ideas and dogmas. Though, our policies must be based more on economic and less on political criteria. And our strategies and policies should not be antagonistic, anachronistic, myopic or atrophic. They must be harmonized and symmetric, systematic, well organized and synchronized. And they must be based on the orthodoxy of economic theory, epistemological axioms and analysis.

    Basically, I prophesize that this odyssey, this traumatic historic phenomenon will be a paradigm of harmony and dynamic synergy between our Organization, the Pan-ethnic Numismatic Thesaurus (IMF), the European Enosis (EU) and all other pan-ethnic or peripheral organizations.

    II

    It is also critical to emphasize that economic policy must not be hyper-antagonistic to ecological acme. For, to my thesis, the dilemma “economic euphoria or ecological acme” is a pseudo-dilemma. In antithesis, a greater harmonization between economic and ecological policies and practices is basic.

    The ecological catastrophe is not a symptomatic phenomenon and my prognosis is that it is not an epidermic or ephemeral phenomenon either. It is a pandemic episode and an endemic phenomenon of our axiomatic system. It is also a drama, a trauma, an anathema and a stigma of our epoch.

    In parenthesis, I homologate that I am dysthymic with all those egocentric and myopic politicians, technocrats, economic colossus or economic oligarchs who with their apathy, frenetic praxis, hysteric and psychotic syndromes and ephemeral policies base their plutocracy and monocracy on unethical, non-deontological and asymmetric practices with myriads of problems. We are all martyrs of their adiaphorism and economic bulimia and paradoxically, I have the aesthesis that it is only those protagonists that do not panic with their egoism and aphasia.

    New ideas, new methods, new technologies and new techniques for new ecological and biological systems are basic and drastic therapeutical practices without hysteresis are critical to pause the problem. New empirical methods and new holistic and horizontal analyses are also basic as an antidote to the phenomenon.

    There is no amphibole that we have the gnosis, the enthusiasm and the dynamism to program therapeutic practices for the economic anemia and the ecological chaos and catastrophe. But there is no magic, automatic or anodynous exodus from the crisis. Diagnostic methods, therapeutic schemes and strategies must be analyzed and synthesized based on a democratic climate and non-dogmatic or egocentric dialogue. For, the dialogue being in diametric antithesis with the monologue is characterized by the synthesis of ideas and its democratic pneuma and axioms. Though, our prognostic, diagnostic and therapeutic practices must be logical and pragmatic and in harmony with our dogmas and ideas.

    We must generate and organize new techniques, new technologies and new ideas as a therapy to the climatic anomalies of the planet, without stereotypes or geopolitical antagonism. Thus, while chemicals, petroleum and the plethora of other non ecological morphs of energy are catastrophic, agro-ecological methods, photoelectric, hydraulic, hydro-electric and other ecological and biological types and categories of energy that are still in practice in embryonic morph are central as antidotes and will diachronically metamorphose the physiognomy, physiology and morphology of our ecumenical clima.

    In my epilogue, I apologize for having tyrannized you with my monologue and sympathize me for my Hellenic acrobatic phraseology and etymological glossary that was based on lexical hyperboles, synonyms and symbolic metaphors. My apologies also for my cynical, caustic and anaglyph tone about the chaos of the economic crisis and the polymorph episodes of the ecological catastrophe.

    I emphasize my eucharistia to all of you, diplomats and scholars, to the plethora of technocrats and analysts, to the technicians, the organizers, and generally to all eponymous and anonymous protagonists of these synods. All our synods have generated schemes of synergies and they have been isometrically dynamic, with all of us agonizing with zeal for the anamorphosis of the economic system and the metamorphosis of the climate of this planet.

    I am also enthusiastic with the atmosphere of our synods and the euphoria of gnosis and praxis under the aegis of our Organization. And although it is not my scope to propagandize for our Organization, I emphasize that I am fanatically enthusiastic about its colossal and prototype analyses, its epistemological bibles and periodicals and generally its bibliographic thesaurus. In parallel, I am enthusiastic about its gigantic anode and acme. This Organization of homogenous ethnos is, as a catalyst of synergies and empirical analysis, pragmatically monadic. However, it will be hypocritical not to homologate some skepticism about the prosthesis or proselytism of other ethnos to the OECD.

    My eucharistia to the Hellenic Politeia and to the eugenic, philoxenous autochthons of this cosmopolitan metropolis. I shall be nostalgic of the fantastic and phantasmagoric panorama of this polis, its physical thesaurus, the atmosphere of its cosmopolitan centre and generally its aura. Paris is pragmatically an ideal polis. A geographical paradise. An idyllic, plethoric, graphic, polyphyletic and non- xenophobic metropolis. A cosmopolitan centre with myriads of museums, palaces of aristocrats, theatres, operas, athletic centers and stadiums and plethora of other historical and panoramic scenes. I homologate that I am a fanatic Francophile, though still not as much a fanatic francophone. I shall also be nostalgic of our oenophile gastronomic symposia.

    My encomiums to the charismatic hegemony of this Organization, you Angel for your pathos, dynamism, rhetoric charisma, fantasy, gigantic energy, stochastic analysis and scholastic zeal. All these charisma, together with your titanic physical and pneumatic enthusiasm have dynamized OECD and have metamorphosed the physiognomy of this Organization. All these charisma emphatically characterize you as an agonistes and patriarch of this Organization.

    My eulogy and agape to all of you and... to phrase something in prototype and authentic English, «I’ll miss you all !».
    Μένω ΕυρώπηΣύγκρουση ιδεών, όχι βία και μισαλλοδοξία: δεν οδηγούν πουθενά. (Λ. Κύρκος)Θα περάσει κι αυτό
    ΕΝΑ ΝΗΜΑ ΤΗΝ ΗΜΕΡΑ ΤΗΝ ΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΝΕΙ ΠΕΡΑ. Staying hungry, staying foolish. Το διαδίκτυο βλάπτει όταν δεν σκέφτεσαι.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
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    I would rather call it an apocalypsis of meandering glossophantasy.
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
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    Nay, it is an apotheosis of pseudophilus glossaries! A thesaurus of deadalic gloss-oneiroxes!
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

  4. #4
    Senior Member azimuthios's Avatar
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    And I could add that it is a hyperbole and catachresis!
    Κι αν δεν μπορείς να κάμεις την ζωή σου όπως την θέλεις,/
    τούτο προσπάθησε τουλάχιστον / όσο μπορείς: μην την εξευτελίζεις --Κ. Καβάφης--

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. --Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus--

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    HandyMod drsiebenmal's Avatar
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    A prosbole to amphi opthalmi! (ophthalmuses?)
    Wer die Wahrheit nicht weiß, der ist bloß ein Dummkopf. Aber wer sie weiß, und sie eine Lüge nennt, der ist ein Verbrecher!
    We base decisions on facts, not superstition, not what our ideology tells us but rather what we can observe

    δεῖ δὲ χρημάτων, καὶ ἄνευ τούτων οὐδὲν ἔστι γενέσθαι τῶν δεόντων
    Η Ελλάδα είναι Ευρώπη, η Ευρώπη είναι Ελλάδα!

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    Senior Member azimuthios's Avatar
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    The esthisis of tachychardia has gotten me as I could not stand to read this anomaly of language anymore...

    Σοβαρά τώρα, μήπως έτσι ξεκίνησαν τα greeklish;
    Κι αν δεν μπορείς να κάμεις την ζωή σου όπως την θέλεις,/
    τούτο προσπάθησε τουλάχιστον / όσο μπορείς: μην την εξευτελίζεις --Κ. Καβάφης--

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. --Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus--

  7. #7
    Senior Member Hellegennes's Avatar
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    Νομίζω πως το κακό αυτών των κειμένων είναι πως δημιουργούν, σε εμάς τους Έλληνες, την λανθασμένη εντύπωση ότι όντως μπορεί κάποιος να συντάξει τέτοιο κείμενο στα αγγλικά με ελληνικές λέξεις. Ο πολύς κόσμος δεν καταλαβαίνει ότι αυτή είναι απλώς μια τεχνική επίδειξη που λίγο νόημα βγάζει -αν βγάζει. Ιδίως τα κείμενα του Ζολώτα, γράφτηκαν για την εντύπωση και μόνο και προφανώς αυτό το γνώριζε ο ίδιος. Η ζημιά γίνεται όταν χρησιμοποιούνται ως επιχείρημα για τον πλούτο της ελληνικής έναντι των άλλων γλωσσών.

    Το πιο αστείο είναι ότι σχεδόν πάντα όταν μιλάνε για φτώχεια λεξιλογίου, άλλων γλωσσών, αναφέρονται στην αγγλική, που αποτελεί ειρωνεία γιατί η αγγλική έχει το μεγαλύτερο λεξιλόγιο όλων των γλωσσών.

    Πριν λίγες μέρες, είχα την γνωστή συζήτηση περί πλούτου γλωσσών. Εγώ απέναντι σε 5 φοιτήτριες (ψυχολογίας και αρχιτεκτονικής). Μάλιστα η μία ήταν φοιτήτρια αγγλικής φιλολογίας. Αφού τούς είπα τα γνωστά περί πλούτου γλωσσών, η υποψήφια φιλολόγος μού λέει:

    -ναι, αλλά η ελληνική είναι πιο πλούσια γλώσσα σε εκφραστικότητα, γι' αυτό οι Άγγλοι δανείστηκαν αυτές τις λέξεις
    -τι έτος είσαι;
    -τρίτο

    Τριτοετής φοιτήτρια αγγλικής φιλολογίας και δεν έμαθε ότι οι γλώσσες είναι όσο εκφραστικές χρειάζονται οι ομιλητές της. Με την κοινή λογική να το πάρει κανείς, μπορεί να δει ότι δεν γίνεται μια γλώσσα να έχει μια συγκεκριμένη εκφραστική ανάγκη και να την αναζητάει εξαρχής σε άλλες γλώσσες. Φανταστείτε τον Άγγλο να λέει "θέλω μια λέξη που να δηλώνει αυτό που παίζουμε διαφορετικούς ρόλους σε μια σκηνή, ας ανοίξω 100 ετυμολογικά λεξικά που δεν υπάρχουν στην εποχή μου για να δω ποια γλώσσα έχει τέτοια λέξη".

    Αυτός ο πλούτος της γλώσσας είναι μεταφυσικός. Λένε "δεν μπορούσαν οι Άγγλοι να έχουν δική τους λέξη για το θέατρο γιατί δεν είναι πλούσια η γλώσσα τους". Τι ακριβώς είναι αυτός ο πλούτος που επιτρέπει την δημιουργία λέξεων ή όχι, ακόμα δεν έχω καταλάβει. Σαφώς η δομή της ελληνικής επιτρέπει κάποια πράγματα διαφορετικά: κάνει εύκολα σύνθετες και δημιουργεί ατέλειωτα παράγωγα με την πλαστικότητα των παραγωγικών καταλήξεων. Ωστόσο οι δάνειες λέξεις που πήρε ο Άγγλος είναι συνήθως πιο βασικές. Οι δε περίπλοκες λέξεις, παράγωγα και σύνθετα, είναι από σπάνιες ως εξαιρετικά σπάνιες. Η καθημερινή ομιλία του Άγγλου περιέχει ελληνικά δάνεια σε πάρα πολύ μικρό βαθμό (της τάξης του 3-5%).

  8. #8
    Senior Member SBE's Avatar
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    Asynartete logos
    (όχι το μήνυμα του ελληγενή, οι λόγοι).

  9. #9
    Senior Member azimuthios's Avatar
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    Νομίζω ότι οι μεταφραστές μπορούν να καταθέσουν πολλές μαρτυρίες για τον πλούτο της ελληνικής γλώσσας...
    Κι αν δεν μπορείς να κάμεις την ζωή σου όπως την θέλεις,/
    τούτο προσπάθησε τουλάχιστον / όσο μπορείς: μην την εξευτελίζεις --Κ. Καβάφης--

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. --Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus--

  10. #10
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    Kyrie eleison! (e-mass*, kata to mega eleos Sou, deometha Sou, epakouson kai eleison) Psychedelia!

    Agnus Dei - Electric Prunes




    *ηλελειτουργία, ηλετρισάγιο (μια που τρίτωσε), ηλεξορκισμός
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

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