Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Σε πότισα ροδόσταμο

  1. #1
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gloucester UK
    Posts
    2,452
    Gender
    Male

    Σε πότισα ροδόσταμο

    I can translate the song quite easily but what do Gatsos's lyrics mean? What's is the meaning of the rich symbolism? I find it hard to gauge the underlying meaning. I know that it meant a lot to both Nikos Gatsos and Mikis Theodorakis, who spent a great deal of time on the music of this song, Can anyone enlighten me about the background to this lovely song, which many artists have felt inspired to interpret?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Neikos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    282
    Gender
    Male
    Για άκου λίγο κι αυτήν την εκτέλεση μήπως μπεις στο κλίμα, Θησέα, και το συζητάμε πάλι.



    Ενδιαφέρουσα η εκτέλεση της Λίντα και του Μπιθικώτση με την αλλαγή ρυθμού από χασάπικο σε ζεϊμπέκικο, αλλά νομίζω πως θα το προτιμούσα σε τέτοιο στιλ το συγκεκριμένο κομμάτι.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gloucester UK
    Posts
    2,452
    Gender
    Male
    Well, blow me down! I know Euripides Hippolytus and Seneca's play and I saw Φαίδρα in my university days and was bowled over by it, despite the adverse criticisms. I've been trying since to get it on CD: I have a poor quality version now.
    The scene at the end where the distraught Antony Perkins is driving his Aston Martin at full speed, while listening to the toccata from Bach's Toccata and Fugue for organ in F major, and the lorry comes like Poseidon's bull and kills him, is haunting and harrowing. But I didn't know any modern Greek then and had quite forgotten the song in this context! How beautifully Melina Merkouri sings it and explains it! Thank you so much, Neikos. "It is about love and death..." That, I suppose, is all I need to know. No other rendering even comes up to the standard of Melina's interpretation.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Αθήνα, Εξάρχεια (Μουσείο)
    Posts
    5,709
    Gender
    Male
    Στον άλλο κόσμο που θα πας
    κοίτα μη γίνεις σύννεφο
    κοίτα μη γίνεις σύννεφο
    κι άστρο πικρό της χαραυγής
    και σε γνωρίσει η μάνα σου
    που καρτερεί στην πόρτα.

    Σε πότισα ροδόσταμο
    με πότισες φαρμάκι
    της παγωνιάς αϊτόπουλο
    της ερημιάς γεράκι.

    Πάρε μια βέργα λυγαριά
    μια ρίζα δεντρολίβανο
    μια ρίζα δεντρολίβανο
    και γίνε φεγγαροδροσιά
    να πέσεις τα μεσάνυχτα
    στη διψασμένη αυλή σου.

    Σε πότισα ροδόσταμο
    με πότισες φαρμάκι
    της παγωνιάς αϊτόπουλο
    της ερημιάς γεράκι.
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

  5. #5
    Senior Member SBE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Londinium
    Posts
    10,785
    Gender
    Female
    Why should everything have "a rich symbolism" (or any symbolism)?
    The lyrics are straightforward and refer to themes common in Greek folk tradition (dead young men, sorrowful mothers etc.). The dead person is advised against revisiting the living, for various reasons mentioned in the song. In other works of similar theme, the narrator expresses wonder at seeing the unnatural (the dead visiting the living), dead people advise others to reveal or hide their death from loved ones, dead people rise to fulfill obligations, surviving relatives (usually mothers) express their sorrow, complain to Death etc etc.
    If you are familiar with early modern Greek literature, then you probably know the earliest demotic song,
    ballad of the dead brother (παραλογή του νεκρού αδερφού). If not, familiarise yourself with it, it will answer a lot of your queries.

    Here's a few more with a similar theme.





  6. #6
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Αθήνα, Εξάρχεια (Μουσείο)
    Posts
    5,709
    Gender
    Male
    Look now what you do to me, Theseus: by raising the discussion to the level of individual lines, or even words, you force us to think about the whole meaning of the lyrics; whereas up to now, entranced by the words chosen by the poet and the vivid imagery, in addition to the lyrical depth of the music, we were trapped into the mythology without giving any thought to what the lines actually say. That's a cruel thing if you ask me...
    ... because, once I pay attention to the meaning, I find there isn't any!
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Theseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Gloucester UK
    Posts
    2,452
    Gender
    Male
    I apologise to both of you, Earion and SBE but nowadays we as teachers have now to ask and answer endless literary questions in Greek and Latin that the habit has become second nature. In fact, the whole GCSE paper is weighted towards literary analysis. When I was at school we just learnt poems by heart and were only asked to comment on the meanings of words. Examiners will tut-tut you both and I meanwhile feel like piggy in the middle**. Nevertheless they would say of SBE's opening remarks would form the prelude to a much fuller answer, explaining each detail of the song till the end.
    BTW, what does the bit about the osier twig and the rosemary root mean, if anything...

    **BTW, what is the Greek for "piggy in the middle" used metaphorically?= someone who is in a difficult situation between two other people who are arguing ()"....

  8. #8
    HandyMod drsiebenmal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    27,907
    Gender
    Male
    Quote Originally Posted by Earion View Post
    ... because, once I pay attention to the meaning, I find there isn't any!
    Oh, I wouldn't say that -- but (damned work!) I wouldn't even think of debating about it right now.
    Wer die Wahrheit nicht weiß, der ist bloß ein Dummkopf. Aber wer sie weiß, und sie eine Lüge nennt, der ist ein Verbrecher!
    We base decisions on facts, not superstition, not what our ideology tells us but rather what we can observe

    δεῖ δὲ χρημάτων, καὶ ἄνευ τούτων οὐδὲν ἔστι γενέσθαι τῶν δεόντων
    Η Ελλάδα είναι Ευρώπη, η Ευρώπη είναι Ελλάδα!

  9. #9
    Senior Member SBE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Londinium
    Posts
    10,785
    Gender
    Female
    Presumably one need not explain that the actual lyrics are one thing and what is said in the film clip about the lyrics is another (and Merkouri's singing is enough to put people off music for a while).
    Also, as far as I know there is no special meaning to the twig and the rosemary plant (not root, πέντε ρίζες ελιές= πέντε δέντρα, μια ρίζα δεντρολίβανο= ένα δεντρολίβανο, ολοκληρο). The chaste-tree (λιγαριά) is a symbol of purity, associated with Hera, and rosemary was used for purification and disinfection. Make what you want of it.
    I couldn't help thinking of the following joke: In 3500 AD an archaeologist comes across some fragments of the lyrics to a previously unknown ancient song. He analyses it and concludes that it was a hymn so some deity protecting young women, and was presumably sung by young women at some religious ritual associated with purity and rites of passage. The lyrics went: Like a virgin touched for the very first time. Like a virgin when your heart beats next to mine
    Last edited by Earion; 09-01-2018 at 05:54 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member pontios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,343
    Gender
    Male
    This is my guess, FWIW.
    The subject of the poem sounds like an unfeeling, ungrateful so and so who's being pleaded with not to become totally bitter and twisted, detached from people who have shown them kindness (before they become a cloud and just drift away); and to start reciprocating the good that they've received, reaching out and availing themselves of a kind, helping hand (not biting it).
    To start feeling and connecting.

    They are being offered a final piece of advice - to tend to their neglected and thirsty yard (yard here = their soul - which thirsts for nourishment and salvation) - to salvage whatever's salvageable before it's too late; or else their own mother won't recognise them when they return (metaphorically speaking or otherwise - from this "other world").

    There's a lot of symbolism (it's "rich" if you cultivate a fertile mind - we just need to think like young children) - and it's subjectively perceived (everyone sees things differently, of course).

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •