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Thread: Βραβείο Νόμπελ Λογοτεχνίας 2016

  1. #21
    Senior Member Hellegennes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daeman View Post
    ...
    Πρωτίστως είναι ιδέα που σχηματίζεται στο νου. Από τότε που έχουμε και γραφή, η πρώτη μας κίνηση είναι να τα καταγράψουμε, για να μην τα ξεχάσουμε και για να διευκολυνθούμε στη συνέχεια, στη συμπλήρωση, τη σύνθεση και την ολοκλήρωση, ακόμη περισσότερο τώρα που μπορούμε να τα γράψουμε σε ψηφιακό μέσο που επιτρέπει πιο εύκολα τις αλλαγές. Σκέψου όμως τι γινόταν πριν τη γραφή, σκέψου τι γίνεται ακόμα και τώρα όταν σου έρθει μια ιδέα, μια και ασχολείσαι απ' ό,τι ξέρω, και δεν έχεις τρόπο να την καταγράψεις (σπάνιο μεν, γίνεται δε· ο Αρχιμήδης στο λουτρό, ο Ελληγεννής στο μπάνιο ). Δεν την επαναλαμβάνεις νοερά ή φωναχτά για να μην την ξεχάσεις και να την εμπλουτίσεις τη στιγμή που την άρπαξες, ενόσω έχεις όρεξη, επιτόπου; Κι αν δεν έχεις καθόλου την πολυτέλεια της γραφής, της γραπτής αποτύπωσης, δεν θα προσπαθήσεις να την αποτυπώσεις στο μυαλό των άλλων για να μη γίνει έπος πτερόεν; Δεν γίνεται «προφορική παράδοση» ακόμα και τώρα, που κυριαρχεί πια παντού η γραφή;
    Δεν ξέρω, δεν μου έτυχε ποτέ στο μπάνιο. Σε όλες τις άλλες φορές που μου έτυχε το σημείωσα κάπου, έστω πρόχειρα. Έχω άπειρες πρόχειρες σημειώσεις σε χαρτάκια, χαρτοπετσέτες, sms, κτλ. Τώρα πάντως μπαίνεις σε μεγάλη συζήτηση, ενδιαφέρουσα μεν, οφτοπικιστική δε. Θα χαιρόμουν να την κάναμε κάπου αλλού (εκ του σύνεγγυς ακόμα καλύτερα).

  2. #22
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellegennes View Post
    Δεν ξέρω, δεν μου έτυχε ποτέ στο μπάνιο. Σε όλες τις άλλες φορές που μου έτυχε το σημείωσα κάπου, έστω πρόχειρα. Έχω άπειρες πρόχειρες σημειώσεις σε χαρτάκια, χαρτοπετσέτες, sms, κτλ. Τώρα πάντως μπαίνεις σε μεγάλη συζήτηση, ενδιαφέρουσα μεν, οφτοπικιστική δε. Θα χαιρόμουν να την κάναμε κάπου αλλού (εκ του σύνεγγυς ακόμα καλύτερα).
    Δεν τραγουδάς στο μπάνιο; Ή τραγουδάς μόνο λόγια άλλων; Δεν ξέρεις τι χάνεις (και τι κερδίζουν οι άλλοι, βέβαια, αν συγκατοικείς με άλλους ).

    Όσοι ξέρω κι ασχολούνται με οποιοδήποτε είδος λογοτεχνίας —και με τη στιχουργική, ένα από τα πρώτα λογοτεχνικά είδη στην ιστορία του ανθρώπου— αυτό κάνουν, γράφουν, σημειώνουν, καταγράφουν ιδέες, εμπνεύσεις, αποσπάσματα, αποκόμματα, σπέρματα· το θεωρούμε αυτονόητο, γι' αυτό είναι πολύ δύσκολο να σκεφτούμε πώς ήταν πριν τη γραφή και γι' αυτό εξισώνουμε πια τη λογοτεχνία μόνο με την καταγραμμένη μορφή της.

    Αλλά ναι, άλλη φορά, αλλού, με πνεύμα οίνου κατά προτίμηση, να διευκολύνει το πνεύμα. Προφορικά κι όχι γραφτά, για να είναι ζωντανά, άμεσα.
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

  3. #23
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    ...
    Leonard Cohen about Dylan's Nobel Prize: "It's like pinning a medal on Mount Everest for being the highest mountain."

    Photo and quote are from the Oct 13, 2016 Leonard Cohen You Want It Darker Launch Event (Los Angeles).
    Posted by
    Andreas Renner ‏@renner33
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

  4. #24
    Senior Member rogne's Avatar
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    Πάνω που αναρωτιόμουν πώς να το είδε το πράγμα ο Κοέν, και γιατί όχι ένα βραβειάκι και στον Κοέν στο μέλλον, κλπ. Με κάλυψε...

  5. #25
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    ... με την απονομή στον Ντίλαν. Άλλωστε, τον έχω «διαβάσει» περισσότερο από τους άλλους νομπελίστες. Περισσότερο κι από τον άλλο Ντίλαν.
    Mια σχετική σκηνή που είχα ξεχάσει και μου τη θύμισε ο ChrisMaGR στο Σαραντάκειο:



    —You know, if the guy's your favorite poet, you might wanna read up on him a little bit. He was Welsh and he drank himself to death.
    —Dead? He's not dead. I saw him yesterday on MTV.
    —You saw Dylan Thomas on MTV...?
    —Ha ha ha... No. Bob Dylan!


    And the Dylan-Dylan contest:



    Which song, which poem?

    PS: the flipside.
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

  6. #26
    Mod Almighty Palavra's Avatar
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    Να μεταφέρω εδώ ακόμα έναν τραγουδισμένο νομπελίστα: Άρνηση, Γιώργος Σεφέρης


    The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge".
    -Isaak Asimov

  7. #27
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    ...
    Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
    Oh, where have you been, my darling young one?
    I’ve stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
    I’ve walked and I’ve crawled on six crooked highways
    I’ve stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
    I’ve been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
    I’ve been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
    And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard
    And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall

    Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
    Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
    I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
    I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
    I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’
    I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’
    I saw a white ladder all covered with water
    I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
    I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
    And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
    And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall

    And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
    And what did you hear, my darling young one?
    I heard the sound of a thunder, it roared out a warnin’
    Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world
    Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin’
    Heard ten thousand whisperin’ and nobody listenin’
    Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin’
    Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter
    Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley
    And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
    And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall

    Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son?
    Who did you meet, my darling young one?
    I met a young child beside a dead pony
    I met a white man who walked a black dog
    I met a young woman whose body was burning
    I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
    I met one man who was wounded in love
    I met another man who was wounded with hatred
    And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
    It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall

    Oh, what’ll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
    Oh, what’ll you do now, my darling young one?
    I’m a-goin’ back out ’fore the rain starts a-fallin’
    I’ll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest
    Where the people are many and their hands are all empty
    Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
    Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
    Where the executioner’s face is always well hidden
    Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
    Where black is the color, where none is the number
    And I’ll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it
    And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it
    Then I’ll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin’
    But I’ll know my song well before I start singin’
    And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
    It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall



    Not literature, eh? Yeah, right, pull the other one, it's got Nobels on.
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

  8. #28
    HandyMod drsiebenmal's Avatar
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    Ευχ, daeman για το σπουδαίο πρωινό δώρο!
    Wer die Wahrheit nicht weiß, der ist bloß ein Dummkopf. Aber wer sie weiß, und sie eine Lüge nennt, der ist ein Verbrecher!
    We base decisions on facts, not superstition, not what our ideology tells us but rather what we can observe

    δεῖ δὲ χρημάτων, καὶ ἄνευ τούτων οὐδὲν ἔστι γενέσθαι τῶν δεόντων
    Η Ελλάδα είναι Ευρώπη, η Ευρώπη είναι Ελλάδα!

  9. #29
    Senior Member daeman's Avatar
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    ...
    Banquet speech by Bob Dylan given by the United States Ambassador to Sweden Azita Raji, at the Nobel Banquet, 10 December 2016.

    "Good evening, everyone. I extend my warmest greetings to the members of the Swedish Academy and to all of the other distinguished guests in attendance tonight.


    I'm sorry I can't be with you in person, but please know that I am most definitely with you in spirit and honored to be receiving such a prestigious prize. Being awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature is something I never could have imagined or seen coming. From an early age, I've been familiar with and reading and absorbing the works of those who were deemed worthy of such a distinction: Kipling, Shaw, Thomas Mann, Pearl Buck, Albert Camus, Hemingway. These giants of literature whose works are taught in the schoolroom, housed in libraries around the world and spoken of in reverent tones have always made a deep impression. That I now join the names on such a list is truly beyond words.

    I don't know if these men and women ever thought of the Nobel honor for themselves, but I suppose that anyone writing a book, or a poem, or a play anywhere in the world might harbor that secret dream deep down inside. It's probably buried so deep that they don't even know it's there.

    If someone had ever told me that I had the slightest chance of winning the Nobel Prize, I would have to think that I'd have about the same odds as standing on the moon. In fact, during the year I was born and for a few years after, there wasn't anyone in the world who was considered good enough to win this Nobel Prize. So, I recognize that I am in very rare company, to say the least.

    I was out on the road when I received this surprising news, and it took me more than a few minutes to properly process it. I began to think about William Shakespeare, the great literary figure. I would reckon he thought of himself as a dramatist. The thought that he was writing literature couldn't have entered his head. His words were written for the stage. Meant to be spoken not read. When he was writing Hamlet, I'm sure he was thinking about a lot of different things: "Who're the right actors for these roles?" "How should this be staged?" "Do I really want to set this in Denmark?" His creative vision and ambitions were no doubt at the forefront of his mind, but there were also more mundane matters to consider and deal with. "Is the financing in place?" "Are there enough good seats for my patrons?" "Where am I going to get a human skull?" I would bet that the farthest thing from Shakespeare's mind was the question "Is this literature?"

    When I started writing songs as a teenager, and even as I started to achieve some renown for my abilities, my aspirations for these songs only went so far. I thought they could be heard in coffee houses or bars, maybe later in places like Carnegie Hall, the London Palladium. If I was really dreaming big, maybe I could imagine getting to make a record and then hearing my songs on the radio. That was really the big prize in my mind. Making records and hearing your songs on the radio meant that you were reaching a big audience and that you might get to keep doing what you had set out to do.

    Well, I've been doing what I set out to do for a long time, now. I've made dozens of records and played thousands of concerts all around the world. But it's my songs that are at the vital center of almost everything I do. They seemed to have found a place in the lives of many people throughout many different cultures and I'm grateful for that.

    But there's one thing I must say. As a performer I've played for 50,000 people and I've played for 50 people and I can tell you that it is harder to play for 50 people. 50,000 people have a singular persona, not so with 50. Each person has an individual, separate identity, a world unto themselves. They can perceive things more clearly. Your honesty and how it relates to the depth of your talent is tried. The fact that the Nobel committee is so small is not lost on me.

    But, like Shakespeare, I too am often occupied with the pursuit of my creative endeavors and dealing with all aspects of life's mundane matters. "Who are the best musicians for these songs?" "Am I recording in the right studio?" "Is this song in the right key?" Some things never change, even in 400 years.

    Not once have I ever had the time to ask myself, "Are my songs literature?"

    So, I do thank the Swedish Academy, both for taking the time to consider that very question, and, ultimately, for providing such a wonderful answer.

    My best wishes to you all,
    Bob Dylan"


    "Bob Dylan - Banquet Speech". Nobelprize.org. Nobel Media AB 2014. Web. 11 Dec 2016.
    http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/2016/dylan-speech.html

    © The Nobel Foundation 2016.
    General permission is granted for immediate publication in editorial contexts, in print or online, in any language within two weeks of December 10, 2016. Thereafter, any publication requires the consent of the Nobel Foundation. On all publications in full or in major parts the above copyright notice must be applied.
    Θεωρητικά, θεωρία και πράξη είναι το ίδιο πράγμα. Στην πράξη, όμως, διαφέρουν.
    When this you see, remember me and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Earion's Avatar
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    Περλ Μπακ;;;!!!
    Άλλο πληροφορία, άλλο γνώση· άλλο βία, άλλο δύναμη.

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